New Savage Model 25 in .222

[cjclemens]

Well, I managed to take my new Model 25 out over the weekend.  I only had a partial box of shells to work with, but I thought I'd share my initial impressions anyway.  It only took 5 shots to bring it into the orange when sighting it in, which I thought was pretty good - and about par for a Savage rifle.  It was pretty windy while I had it out, but it still managed to post some decent groups. All under 1" at 100 yards, with the best being a little under 3/4".  I was impressed, given the conditions and that this was all done with the first 17 rounds through the rifle.  Overall, I think its a solid rifle.  The action feels pretty light, but I guess thats the point - it is supposed to be a lightweight rifle.  Fit and finish is good and, so far, the accuracy appears to be what I have come to expect from savage.  Next stop will be the reloading bench to make some test loads for it.  Hopefully, I can have it dialed in just in time to catch some coyote action with it.

[Mike A.]

Just found this model on Savage website.  Why, if I may ask, did you choose .222 over .223?

[LaOtto222]

I can not speak for cjclemens, but for me....I have 2 - 223's now. If I were to get a Model 25, it would be in 222. The main reason I have 223's; they are much easier to get, not because they are a better cartridge. Remember the 222 Remington came first, the military adopted the stretched 222 (mostly blew out the shoulder and lengthened the OAL a little). The 222 Remington has a standard 1 - 14" twist barrel, ideal for 52 grain and under bullets. If you like shooting lighter bullets the 222 does extremely well with 50 grain bullets in the 3000 - 3100 fps range. The 223 defacto standard now is 1 - 9" twist. there really is very little difference in performance between the 222 and 223. The 223 can handle heavier bullets, but for varmint hunting I prefer the 50 grain and lighter bullets. If you hand load, the cost is about the same to reload one as to the other, if you buy your ammo, the 223 and the 222 is the about the same for premium loads. For cheap loads, there is no such animal in a 222 Remington. Bottom line...if you hand load, shoot 50 grain bullets and lighter, you are better served with a 222 Remington. Did I mention that the 222 Remington was THE bench rest cartridge for many a year only getting deposed by the 6PPC? So it is accurate and is easy to make shoot very well. I have only owned 2 - 222's and both of them shot very well indeed. That is why I would choose a 222 over a 223 given the choice. If you want to sling 65 -70 grain bullets down range, then a 222 is not for you.


BTW the 2 - 223 that I presently have, one is a 1 - 12" twist (Handi Ultra) and the other is 1 - 14" twist set up and throated for 40 grain V-Max bullets. The neck diameter is under size so I turn necks for it. I get 3700 fps out of a 26" tube. Yes, I like the slower twist barrels.


Good Luck and Good Shooting

[Mike A.]

I agree that the .222 is an excellent ctg.  My Valmet/Savage combination in .222 under 12 ga has always shot truly well with anything I've fed it under 55 grains.

But the .223 has some advantages besides being "trendy:" cheap (often free) brass, a much wider variety of factory loads, and a much better choice if you are going to use it for deer (which I don't do).

Glad somebody is tryin' to keep the "triple deuce" alive, tho.

[cjclemens]

Why, if I may ask, did you choose .222 over .223?

LaOtto hit the nail on the head.  .222 is a 30-06 cartridge that has been scaled down, in proportion, to accept a 22 caliber bullet.  With that comes much of the inherent accuracy of the parent cartridge.  The military minds that gave us .223 wanted more velocity, so they simply increased case capacity by moving the shoulder forward some.  Also, most .223 rifles come with a 1:9 or faster barrel - good for heavy bullets, but not so good for lighter bullets.  The model 25 comes in 1:14, which is great for lighter bullets.  I mostly hunt coyotes, so I go through a lot of 45 - 55 grain bullets.

Im not, by any means, knocking the .223.  It's a great cartridge - cheap, accurate, and readily available.  I shoot .223 as well, but mostly out of an AR.  I do a lot of handloading, which made the choice pretty easy for me.  Plus, I was feeling a bit nostalgic when I ordered the rifle.  A lot of my dad's hunting stories involve his old savage 340 or combination over/under .222/12 gage, but I digress.

Side Note: After a shooting a handfull of test loads, it looks like this thing really likes 50 grain bullets.  Most groups were in the .5 to .75" range at 100 yards.  It did OK with 45 and 55's, but those would need a little work with powder and charge.  At this point, i think i'll pursue the 50 grain load with IMR 4198 (one of my favorite general purpose powders).

[barm]

Cjclemens,
Does Savage use the barrel nut for the Model 25 or is it pinned in place?  Also, does the trigger guard and magazine seem to be durable?  I had read they were plastic.

[OLDHandgunner]

I'm a 222 fan. My first gun was a Savage 340 in 222. This was my only rifle for many years. Used it year around, woodchucks, fox, coyotes, rabbits, crows & deer. This was a super accurate gun & still is. Always shot 50gr handloads in it, mostly Hornady SX. Now that I have many other guns I don't get to shoot it as much. Have 2 other 222 now, a T/C Contender in 223 & a couple of 22-250's. A T/C Contender in 22 Hornet & a 22k Hornet.
 
I guess you would say I am big 22 caliber fan.
 
Good Luck with your new Model 25.

[cjclemens]

Does Savage use the barrel nut for the Model 25 or is it pinned in place?  Also, does the trigger guard and magazine seem to be durable?  I had read they were plastic.

The model 25 uses a barrel nut just like other Savage models.  The trigger guard and magazine are both plastic on mine.  The trigger guard seems to be quite sturdy - I have no complaints there.  The magazine is somewhat less impressive.  It seems durable enough, but it has a cheap and flimsy feel to it.  I wouldn't say its total garbage, but it leaves much to be desired.  Bottom line - it works.  It holds three rounds and feeds them flawlessly every time.  I bought an extra and stashed it just in case this one fails, but I doubt it will anytime soon.

I guess you would say I am big 22 caliber fan.

I'm a diehard .22 caliber fan as well.  I have the Savage 25 in .222, an older model 340 also in .222, a model 12FV in 22-250.  I also have a Ruger 77/22 Hornet, a NEF Handi in .223, and an AR in 5.56.  All of which get regular use on the local varmint population.

[Frank46]

I've had three .222's over the years. Sako, rem 788, and rem 40x. I used IMR 4198 as the powder as was recomended to me and never changed. When remington used to make available their 55 grain hollow point I found it shot as well as a match bullet. The 788 accounted for exactly one huge pennsylvania wood chuck. My uncle Walt was so taken by the 788 my aunt bought one for him. He used to carry it in a saddle sheath much like the cowboys on his tractor. Now he did in any number of chucks with that rifle. Frank

[cjclemens]

I use 4198 on .223, so it was an easy choice for me.  There might be a better powder for .222, but I cant imagine it being that much better.  When I started reloading .222 recently, I realized I had lots of choices for 45 grain and lighter bullets, as well as 55 grain and heavier...but I didnt have much in the way of 50 grainers.  Naturally I had to order a bunch, so I have more than enough .22 caliber bullets to last me a lifetime.  Or maybe I just need to start shooting more

[LaOtto222]

Back in the day I was hand loading for my 222, I found that IMR 4198 did not meter well out of my powder thrower. I sure gave it a good go, I just could not find any method I did give me repeatable results, so I took up ball powders. Tried W748 first without much luck, then BL C2. Bingo - 25 grains under a Hornady 50 SX sparked by a Remington 7 1/2 and Winchester cases .020" off the lands. Shoot under .5 all day long.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

[smokehouserex]

 
 
  I too like the 222, have one in a 40xbbr, 25x lyman super target scope, 52 gr bullets, 4198 and 335 powder is what I loaded, 4198 is best.
  Have a Browning Safari Grade in 222mag. 20x Redfield Tgt. Scope, It's shot out now but 4198 and 55gr bullet, was  a good shooter also. I used to shoot field larks in the springtime. They would lite in the top of the cedar trees and these little ctgs. would vaporize them.
  Never owned a 223, also never understood why the 222mag wasn't chosen for mil. instead of the 223. JMO
  Love the 222's & mag version.
  HM

[OLDHandgunner]

4198 IMR was the powder that shot the best over all in my Savage 340 with 50grs SX. When we used to have a friendly turkey shot competition around the area years ago I would bring my Old Savage 340 and load it with a full case of 3031 IMR under a Hornady 53 Match HP. This would shoot ragged hole 100yrd groups if I did my part. Many a high priced fancy gun took second place to my Savage 340.
 
My Rem 600 likes 4198 also, along with my Dad's Rem 788.
But my T/C Condender with a Bullberry Match 222 barrel, it like H322 under almost any 50gr bullet. With a Burris 4x-12x Mini Target on top it will shoot Sierra 50gr Blitz bullets under 1/2"  if I do my part.
 
I've really never seen a 222 that didn't shoot well.

[Rock Home Isle]

There are few things more fun than shooting an accurate rifle. Very Cool. 

[cjclemens]

There are few things more fun than shooting an accurate rifle.

I'll second that.
 

IMR 4198 did not meter well out of my powder thrower.

Mine either.  I use a Lyman DPS powder dispenser, and it drops too much every time.  I guess i've just gotten good at sorting out those little pencil leads .  As a matter of habit, I have always used mostly extruded powders (IMR, in particular) for rifle cartridges.  4198, 4064, 4895, and 3031 are the ones I use most of all.

[LaOtto222]

I have an RCBS ChargeMaster now. IMR 4198 would not be problem, but it was 30 years ago! Even then, all the "experts" said that IMR 4198 was THE powder for the 222, I just could not get it to work. I ended up using the Hornady 50 Grain SX because #1 it was very accurate. #2 it was about the cheapest bullet I could buy at the time and finally #3 It would blow up little critters with extreme satisfaction. It would literally give off the red mist at 125 yards with a head shot on a woodchuck. It might have at a longer distance, but I only had a 10X scope and could not see it I was shooting a Remington 700 VS and it was heavy enough that I could see shots through the scope. Those were the good 'ol days.

BTW that is the same 10X scope (Japanese Bushnell BDC Banner) in my avatar, now setting on a Handi 223.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Nice to see some still enjoy the old .222...while I have one, no two .223's, they will never probably fire the number of rounds I put though my old .222's...Like handgunner, my first centerfire was a .340 in .222, unlike handgunner, I do not still have mine...much to my regret...over the years, I have owned most of the .22 caliber rifles and most common calibers though the 375...the old .222 is still one of my very favorite calibers...my .222 I use most is a 700 rebarreled with a 26" tube in a fancy custom stock...this is my prairie dog, ground squirrel and when I get the chance togo woodchuck rifle.. at present it has about 7,000 rounds down the tube, but is still as accurate as ever...Many powders and bullets were used over the years...I lately have used H4895 because I have a bunch of it, but found I have also a bunch of 4198 both IMR and H...as someone stated it doesn't meter as well, but it sure does shoot awesome...since prairie dogs populations are way down here, I will probably switch to the 4198 ...I 'm not loading in the volume of bygone days....My other .222 is an old model Sako action...It involves three of my best friends of my younger days...It has a custom stock built and handfitted by my pal who was killed in an accident 45 years ago, another good pal finished the stock after the accident, and the rifle was owned by my old hunting partner ....he sold it to me just before his passing...now I use it only for hunting wild turkey...never really fooled much with it...just loaded 4198 and 50 grain Serria's and it is deadly accurate...Great caliber..too bad many of todays shooters do not know the buzz this little round made for many years in the varmit shooting world...enjoy...

[cjclemens]

Well, I think i found what it likes. 3 shots in about 1/2 inch group @ 100 yards is good enough for me.  The load is 20 grains of IMR 4198 with a 50 grain Midway Dogtown.  I also tried some Nosler Ballistic tips, but it didnt seem to like them as much...perhaps it was the boat tail?  Either way, this works well enough for me.  I know better than to put my foot through a Van Gogh. 
 

[tgardner]

I've shot 9 mule deer with my 840 222 most of them one shot kills using 55 grain nosler solid base bullets and 19 grains of 4198. This gun is my most accurate rifle