Author Topic: Freeboring the .30-30? (Read 1295 times)

jpshaw · « **on:** March 11, 2012, 04:03:49 AM »

I'm talking about throat reaming the rifling back about 1/8" or more. Has anyone bothered with doing it and if so how did were the results? I've been working on another load for mine and found a bullet I really want to use. When I seated the Speer 150 grain Hot-Cor to the crimping grove the round would not even drop into the chamber it was so short (the chamber not the round). Got it to work but have just about stuck the whole thing in the case which defeated the purpose I was trying to achieve in the first place. Just wondering if anyone has done this here but I quess someone has since 4D makes a reamer to do it.

necchi · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2012, 05:47:45 AM »

That's unusual,,
Not only for the Handi to have a short throat but a bullet seated to the crimp grove is almost always sammi spec oal.

Just wondering, but did the case get trimmed to sammi length?
I have tried to use the seating die as a crimper (like they say they can be used) set it up wrong and instead of crimping I actually crushed the case neck a little, bulging it, the bulge wouldn't let the case/cartridge into the neck properly.
So it was my mistake that actually made the cartridge not fit.

jpshaw · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2012, 07:28:31 AM »

.30-30 bullets have a crimping grove near the front of the bullet. This is not a .30-30 bullet but one designed for other .308 dia rounds like the .300 Savage or .308 and has a crimp near the rear. I know the .30-30 case is not designed to give those velocities but it will open up at ranges around 150 or possible 200 since I will now have a pointed bullet not a blunt one and it shouldn't shed speed nearly so fast. Not to mention a bitty bit more case capacity without nearly the whole bullet shoved into it.

BTW I've also crushed the neck before but that's not the case here. This is a spinster type bullet and even seated that deep is noticibly longer then a normal .30-30. I makes a sweet looking round crimped at the grove. It just won't chamber with it that far out.

topper88 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2012, 10:05:45 AM »

First I would double check everything to make sure the case met SAMMI dimensions. I have a .30-40 Krag which has a long throat and when full metal jacket, pointy bullets are seated, unless you shake the gun while pointed skyward to get the powder against the primer then slowly let it down and aim, you may have a FTF. Long & heavy, round nose bullets, seated way out almost against the lands work just fine. It took me a few months to learn that certain calibers have their chamber cuts matched to a certain design bullet. Others may work but it's an improvised arrangement. If you want to use a bullet designed for a .308 it is better to acquire a .308 barrel and use it that way. Your accuracy and final results will be worth it. Just my opinion. I have 6 different handi barrels in .30 caliber dimensions to utilize the wide variety of .30 cal. bullets available.

jpshaw · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2012, 11:29:23 AM »

Not going to buy another barrel. The .30-30 has all the velocity I need for this gun and I have a bullet the Mgf said would expand at these speeds. It's just that it is designed with a crimping grove in the rear. I know you don't have to use the groove but that's where I want it to crimp. I want to shoot a long spire point bullet since this is not a lever action and it has no magazine I'm tired of having the limitations that go with that rifle type. I'm living with restrictions this simple rifle does not need.

I appreciate your input. The cases are fine. I'm just trying to make a different cartridge without the limitations placed on it by a totally different type of rifle. A Handi has no action to go through and no tubular magazine to restrict my bullet type. I just plan to cut the rifling back enough to allow me to do so and was wondering if anyone had done it before.

Goatwhiskers · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2012, 11:52:04 AM »

This type of action there is no need to crimp at all. The only one I "crimp" is my Max as I only use cast in it and I just have to remove the tiny flare so that it chambers properly. Goat

jpshaw · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2012, 01:37:44 AM »

I'm not really worried about the crimp (or lack of it) but where the bullet is in the case. I want a longer OAL in the cartridge allowing a spinster type of bullet to be used in single shots so we are not restricted by the limitations of the lever action. If you look at a factory .30-30 round it is made to reside in, and work its way up from, a tubular magazine and through the action. Short and blunt with the bullet shoved almost all the way inside.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to want to put a 30 caliber throat reamer in a .30-30 single shot so I could make a better round for it.

tom548 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2012, 03:13:21 AM »

There is no reason you can't open up the free bore so the bullet will seat were you want it and not be against the groves. If you go back to shooting shorter bullets then the jump to rifling would be a bit longer. To check how much drop a bullet in then mic.how far it is from the barrel face, then just do the math.

twoshooter · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2012, 04:00:44 AM »

Not all handis have long throats, I shoot the same load /bullet/brass in both my contender and the handi, the handi has to be seated about 080 shorter than the contender. The std 30/30 bullets ogive seems to begin the taper at the cannelure and other 30 cals do not. This makes for a very short OAL on my cartridges, but the base is still farther out than with heavier bullets. My 125's are as deep as say a 170 should be, but I have had no problem with them.

av-doctor · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2012, 06:24:20 AM »

i have no personal knowledge of the bullet your planning to use. i have 2 handi barrels in 30-30 and have loaded 150gr sierra gamekings out to .010 off the lands with no problems,i'm currently using 125gr nosler bt for the bump in velocity so far i'm about 1 1/2 at 150yds, i don't forsee a problem with cutting the throat a bit deeper if you plan on loading for it, you may have a little problem if you switch to shooting factory ammo but most barrels have a long throat anyway.
what kind of velocity you trying to acheive? i never got much over 2200 with the 150 gmk's,2300 with 150gr win pp (rnd nose pp used in fctry ammo),2450 with nos 125grs.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2012, 06:35:53 AM »

FWIW, the Speer #13 shows 150gr HC (spitzers, not spinsters!

) loads in their 14" Contender data @ ~2150fps MV, COL 2.700".

Tim

jpshaw · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2012, 06:41:27 AM »

Quote from: av-doctor on March 12, 2012, 06:24:20 AM

what kind of velocity you trying to acheive? i never got much over 2200 with the 150 gmk's,2300 with 150gr win pp (rnd nose pp used in fctry ammo),2450 with nos 125grs.

Looking for about 2400 with a 150 and I've seen up to 2450 data on them but I don't know how far I really want to push that thin brass. I'm looking to have more retained vel at 150 yds or so with a spire point bullet. There will be a tad bit more capacity with the bullet not backed into the case so much also.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2012, 07:15:11 AM »

When loading a single shot why even use the crimp groove ? I never did when loading for a TC . Load your bullet so it fits the chamber .

yukondog · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2012, 07:42:01 AM »

I've got the same problem with mine, I'm using hornady 150 gr. soft point but am having to seat past the crimp groove, I got some sierra 150 spitzers but according to sierra tech's they are not designed to expand at the slower velocity but hornady will at least according to there tech's. I'll be watching your thread to see what others say, if you can do it let us know how it works out as I'm sure were not the only ones with this problem, if it woks I'll be next in line for the reamer [if there is one].

av-doctor · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2012, 08:03:46 AM »

2400 is a tall order,not impossible but getting close. powder choice is key i've only tried 2 imr3031 and h335. both loaded to point of getting sticky still only yielded around 2200. hate to say it but you might want to look at different bullets.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2012, 08:10:27 AM »

If you have to rent a reamer maybe it would be better to order a 30-30 AI

might pick up som mph at a lower pressure ........

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2012, 08:37:20 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 12, 2012, 08:10:27 AM

If you have to rent a reamer maybe it would be better to order a 30-30 AI might pick up som mph at a lower pressure ........

Amen, reamer rent is about the same, can be done by hand easily, mine pushes 125gr Sierras close to 2900fps in 375 Win brass..... on an SB2 frame of course.

OTOH, Hodgdon shows 30-30 150gr data for their LEVERevolution® (LVR) over 2500fps in their 24" barrel.

Tim

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:32:34 AM »

Well, Tim beat me to it again. No surprise on that

, Tim beats most of us. the LeverEvolution powder is the top choice for the 30-30 now if you get the accuracy you are lookin for. I would hesitate to ream the barrel for one bullet until I was certain that bullet would perform as wanted in that barrel. I didn't notice if the OP had shot for groups with that barrel/bullet combo yet or not. If that bullet is for sure what you are gong to shoot, then modifying the chamber area for it is fine. Need more input for proper output.

DP

jpshaw · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:53:49 PM »

I'm going to check several things before reaming anything. The powder I am using at the moment is Reloader 15 for 150 grainers. I'm also going to try some 125 or 130 grain but so far haven't seen data to get much faster then the 150. We will see.

yukondog · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2012, 02:03:58 PM »

I'm looking to have more retained vel at 150 yds or so with a spire point bullet.

With reg. 30-30 velocity's at 150 yrds. and under you should still be fine, without having to push it beyond it's intended use.
Talked to a speer tech today and according to them the speer 150 is not desinged to expand at normal 30-30 velocity's. But the 130's are. But according to hornady's tech with the thiner jacket they should expand just fine.

demented · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:34:49 PM »

I'm loading 150 Nosler Ballistic Tips at 2.760, am at least .010 off the lands. Using 36 grains of Leverevolution powder I'm getting 2300 fps, chrono'd with zero pressure signs. I think getting 2400 would be possible with this powder and bullet. I've never liked the Nosler from my other 30 caliber rifles, too explosive, it seems ideal dropped down to 30-30 speeds. I took a deer last season at 165 yards, broadside standing, behind the front shoulder, bullet was a pass through with a 1.5" exit, deer dropped in its tracks.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2012, 08:16:44 AM »

If you go 130 gr Try Hornady Z-MAX , it should give great expansion .

Blucollar · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2012, 05:41:31 PM »

JPSHAW,
Please let us know what you find on this issue.

I have the same problem.
Not using speer, but so far any spitzer I've tried has to be sunk in the brass to chamber!

Like you said, this kills the advantage the single shot should have over the lever action.

Thanks, Blu

Brewster · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2012, 06:15:34 PM »

Folks, before ya start in with the reamers, either chamber or throat, do a chamber cast and check your throating, and try out making the COL gauge with a resized cartridge, your bullet of choice and your dremel. Then make your decisions and go for it.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #24 on:** March 31, 2012, 12:17:17 AM »

I'm late to the party...

If I understand correctly what your wanting is to simply customize your chamber for a perticular bullet. VERY "doable" and I have done this a couple times myself.

Free boring isn't so much something that allows someone to overload a cartridage. You will get more room to seat a bullet longer and while the 30-30 is a "deep seater" I don't think you are gonna quite reach your goal with in pressure limitations.

I'm thinking its a case of wrong termimology. You don't want "free bore" This is something like whats on the Weatherby rifles... You just need to lengthen your throat a bit. Call Fred at 4D and explain. He is a gunsmith and will likely have something to do what I think your asking for..

Incase, I have read wrongly...

As always, Tim is "quick" with the idea that popped into my head as reading the posts... WHY? I would just re-chamber for a caliber thats designed to acheive the vel/preformance you are wanting...

You have a couple good selections, 30-30AI as previously mentioned... But also the 30 US and 307 Win will get you there too. ~~BOTH~~ ALL three VERY handi "friendly" calibers.

CW

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 31, 2012, 01:27:42 PM »

It will be easy to rent a Throating reamer from 4D to obtain the desired OAL on your choice of bullets.Go slow and have a dummy cartridge loaded to check the progress.Remember the first rule of throating "if you go to far you cannot go back".You can work up a nice load in the range you suggest by taking it slow in powder increments and get a very nice 30-30 load that should meet your requirements.
Good Luck and Play Safe