A Topic Of Many FNG Questions- Gas Checks, Lubes, Paper, etc.

[Not the 10th Man]

Hey y'all,
                I've been kicking around the notion of casting my own for awhile now.  The wife just found an $100 Midway Gift Certificate, so it seems a good time to get started.

Right now I'm thinking of a couple .452 Molds for my .45 Colt, .45 Casull, and .45 ACPs.

Now, as far as lubing...a real easy way I'm understanding is the use of the Lee Alox, and Tumble Lubing.  That sounds easy enough.  add a bit of that into a container, tumble the bullets around in it, set out on wax paper, let 'em dry overnight, and have fun.  I'm gathering that it's sometimes a bit sticky, but not a huge issue for revolvers, and sometimes rectified with a modicum of talcum powder or something similar after loading.  Does that sound about right?  I'm also guessing that the Alox Tumble Lube works okay with standard groove bullets as well as the Lee Molded ones with the smaller lube grooves?

What about the other lubes, like...filling in the lube grooves?  Is there a way to do that without using a "Lubri-Sizer"?  I'm reading a little bit about melting the 1/2 blocks of various lubes into a pan, setting the bullets in it for a few hours, and then plucking them back out?

Thoughts and suggestions on a KISS simple, inexpensive way to get started without producing crap bullets would sure be appreciated.

My next concern is gas checks.  I've read that leading can be a real issue with most any bullets doing over 1,000 FPS, especially when made from wheel weights.  Two of my main guns are .45 Colt rifles, so it's almost a challenge to keep them under 1,000 FPS.  And of course, it would be nice to just let 'em rip with a full (ish) charge from the .454 Casull.  At what point do I need to start considering gas checks for the .452 bullets?  As near as I can understand, you need a specific mold to run gas checks.  The easiest way is to use a Lee sizer die that fits on a standard reloading press?

I've also got a .358 Winchester, and a .35 Whelen that I'd like to cast for.  Now, since we're talking the 2K and above range, can I still do a simple gas check, or do I need to start wrapping them with paper?  (Which sounds like a pain in the butt)

I'm sure I'll have lots more goofy questions before it's said and done, but if y'all can share your thoughts, ideas and experiences thus far, I'd sure appreciate it.

[stimpylu32]

Hey y'all,
                I've been kicking around the notion of casting my own for awhile now.  The wife just found an $100 Midway Gift Certificate, so it seems a good time to get started.

Right now I'm thinking of a couple .452 Molds for my .45 Colt, .45 Casull, and .45 ACPs.

Now, as far as lubing...a real easy way I'm understanding is the use of the Lee Alox, and Tumble Lubing.  That sounds easy enough.  add a bit of that into a container, tumble the bullets around in it, set out on wax paper, let 'em dry overnight, and have fun.  I'm gathering that it's sometimes a bit sticky, but not a huge issue for revolvers, and sometimes rectified with a modicum of talcum powder or something similar after loading.  Does that sound about right?  I'm also guessing that the Alox Tumble Lube works okay with standard groove bullets as well as the Lee Molded ones with the smaller lube grooves?
 
The tumble lube works fine with either type of bullet , just add a bit of rubbing Alc. it helps the drying and cuts down on the sticky , I do mine in a 20oz plastic Pepsi bottle and just lay them out on a peice of Wax Paper to dry .

What about the other lubes, like...filling in the lube grooves?  Is there a way to do that without using a "Lubri-Sizer"?  I'm reading a little bit about melting the 1/2 blocks of various lubes into a pan, setting the bullets in it for a few hours, and then plucking them back out?

Thoughts and suggestions on a KISS simple, inexpensive way to get started without producing crap bullets would sure be appreciated
 
The Pan Lube method works OK I guess , I've not hade much luck with it , Maybe I should try it again someday ..

My next concern is gas checks.  I've read that leading can be a real issue with most any bullets doing over 1,000 FPS, especially when made from wheel weights.  Two of my main guns are .45 Colt rifles, so it's almost a challenge to keep them under 1,000 FPS.  And of course, it would be nice to just let 'em rip with a full (ish) charge from the .454 Casull.  At what point do I need to start considering gas checks for the .452 bullets?  As near as I can understand, you need a specific mold to run gas checks.  The easiest way is to use a Lee sizer die that fits on a standard reloading press?
 
If you want to push them , them GC's are the best option here , and you need a mold that is designed for a GC bullet , the biggest reason for leading though is undersized bullets - not speed .

I've also got a .358 Winchester, and a .35 Whelen that I'd like to cast for.  Now, since we're talking the 2K and above range, can I still do a simple gas check, or do I need to start wrapping them with paper?  (Which sounds like a pain in the butt)
 
Ya , GC'ed bullets will do just fine , keep your loads down and you could even get by with a Plain Base bullet .
 


I'm sure I'll have lots more goofy questions before it's said and done, but if y'all can share your thoughts, ideas and experiences thus far, I'd sure appreciate it.

Just keep asking ??'s and we'll try our best to steer you in the right direction !
 
stimpy

[mauserand9mm]

I've contemplated using paper patching for some undersized lead projectiles that I'm stuck with - they won't shoot as is, 0.001" too small.
I believe you can paper patch with jacketed too. I was going to try and save money by using 500S&W jacketed in my 500NE (0.510") using paper patching but I think the size difference is too much to work successfully.

[Nobade]

For sizing and applying gas checks - use Lee type press mounted push through sizers. Cheap and works better than a lubrisizer. Keeps bullets more concentric.

Lubing - tumble lube or dip lubing. To dip lube, melt lube in a tuna can or something similar. Dip bullets by grabbing the nose with smooth pliers. Just like making chocolate candies. Let dry on wax paper and cut the excess away with a piece of tubing or a fired case.

45 Colt and 45 ACP shoot fine at SAAMI pressures with no gas check if the bullet fits the firearm properly. 454 will likely need gas checks and quench hardened bullets.

358 and 35 Whelen work fine up to full power with gaschecked bullets if they are quench hardened and the rifling twist isn't too fast. Great for target shooting, but won't expand. This is where paper patching comes in - the ability to shoot very soft bullets at high speed with accuracy and no leading. This is an advanced thing. Learn to shoot normal cast bullets first. Plus 35 caliber flatnose bullets kill things quite well even if they don't expand. Most factory 35 Whelen rifles have throats in the neighborhood of .362" or so. Make sure what yours measures and buy a mould that fits. Undersize bullets will give you fits.

There's lots more to it, but hopefully this answers your questions so far. There are lots of ways to do the same thing, so you'll surely get many opinions here and other places! Enjoy your new journey, you'll be learning new things for years if you keep at it. 

[Not the 10th Man]

Heh.  Don't that beat all.  I tried to get the Lee .452 sizer today, but couldn't get it due to the ALOX making it a Haz-Mat item.  Mid South is glad to- for an additional $35.  If I can't find one in state, maybe I can call somewhere and tell them to just ship me the damn sizer and pull the lube out of the package.  If I can't find a place that'll do that, hopefully I'll find an individual in the classifieds here.


I can still order my molds though.   

As far as the lube goes, if I'm having a tough time finding good stuff in Alaska here, are there any home brews you can suggest?

Thanks for your thoughts thus far.  You've already been quite helpful.

[Swampman]

You can get a 32 oz bottle of Liquid Alox on ebay for $12.00.  You don't need a sizer.  You don't need gas checks.  Just shoot them as cast.

[mdi]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php Check out this forum for casting stuff. A sub-section for lubes, read the stickies;  http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?f=58 I have used recipes from this site and currently use the 45-45-10 lube (from stickie http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654 ) for some Ranch Dog bullets I cast.
 
When I lived in CA, and since moving to Oregon, I have purchased alox on line w/no hazmat. Last purchase was from White Label Lube http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/index.html

[Not the 10th Man]

Every once in awhile a fella gets lucky.  There's a shop about a mile from my house that just happens to have exactly what I'm after.  They had to remove the small lube from the sizer to ship it up, but they sell the ALOX in larger quantites that was trucked up.  I'm having my wife stop and pick that stuff up today.  I should be able to get some .452 molds enroute, and I should have the basics within a day or two of getting home.  I'm pretty eager to get my hands on it.

I'm guessing a decent pair of leather gloves would be in order?  I was wondering about an old pair of MIG gloves, but I know I can get some plain unlined leather of medium thickness as well.

[stimpylu32]

The type of glove will depend on what your using for heat , a small elect. pot and you can get by with some light leather work gloves , fire or a propane cooker and you'll need something a bit beefer for sure . 
 
stimpy

[Not the 10th Man]

I greatly appreciate y'alls input thus far.

As previously mentioned, I have a .452 Lee Sizer and a bottle of ALOX waiting at home for me.  I have  three Lee Molds enroute.  They are all .452.  One is 200 grain SWC with the tumble lube grooves, one is 255 grain flat nose, and one is for 300 grain flat nose with gas check.  I'm not bothering with gas checks though.  The last time I shot my .454 with full power loads I found myself...quite humbled, so...it'll be awhile before I push those 300 grainers past 1,000 FPS.

As far as supplies, I'm thinking unless I get a lucky find at a thrift store, I might just treat myself to one of those Lee bottom pour melting pots.  The price for new pots, ladles, hot plate, etc. versus the cost of the Lee melting pot aren't too terribly far off.

Now, hardware wise, I'm getting to where all I gotta do is hunt up some lead to melt.  knowledge wise I need to get the flux issue figured out.  Well...the knowledge is probably a never ending quest, but to get started safely and start learning hands on....I should be getting close.

  I'd still be grateful for any other helpful hints that can be shared.

Thanks for your thoughts

[stimpylu32]

not
 
You might run into issues with the GC bullets if you shoot them without the checks , they will most likely lead your gun badly , I don't know just why but it seems that little lip melts away and smears all over everything , atleast it has for me .
 
As for fluxing , no big deal , I just use either DRY saw dust or car wax ( Paste type ) and it doesn't take much of the wax either , stir it into the melted lead and all the crud will float to the top to be skimmed off .
 
stimpy

[Not the 10th Man]

Wheee!!!  Thanks for the warning on those GC's.  I wouldn't have thought it'd be a big deal when fired at low velocity and low pressure.

flux does sound pretty basic.

As far as lead, I did have some concerns about local sources  (Surely, I'm not the only guy casting bullets, making sinkers, dive weights, etc. in my area?)  But a quick glimpse at E-Prey put my mind at ease  There's lots of great deals out there on lead, and ya' gotta love the USPS Flat Rate shipping boxes....

I think I'm about set.  Now all I gotta do is get home, start organizing and assembling, and see what turns out.

Thanks again for all the help.  I hope to report back within a few weeks on how it goes.