New Indiana deer hunt regs...here we go again.

[HappyHunter]

New PROPOSED regulations can be found at:  www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/2362.htm

Again these are proposed regs and not to be applied this year.

Notice that rifle cartridge length is increased to 1.80,  Now I need Marlin to make me a S&W 460 in a nice lever gun. 

I do not have that big a problem with these.   I am at a lose as how to mark my ground blind with orange correctly.

What do you Hoosiers think?

Fred

[Spector]

Hopefully we will see the legal cartridge length increased to 1.8'' for this year's deer hunting season.

I like running my Swiss Vetterli cases at 42mm instead of trimming them at 38mm.

I didn't read all of the changes proposed.  I've had a conprehensive lifetime hunting and fishing license since 86 so I'm hoping there will be no financial impact on me.

Hopefully I'll be seeing an Indiana conservation officer Thursday and get some imput from him.  He's on vacation this month so I'm not sure.........Mike

[murphdog]

My first impression is that this proposal is OK, and a whole lot better than their previous proposal.  At least they're keeping the regular gun season where it's always been (my main gripe with their last proposal).  The additional antlerless season over the CHRISTmas/New year holiday also appeals to me.  Other than S&W 460, what other pistol cartridges would become legal with a 1.8" rule?
Duane

[HuntMeister]

IMHO, much better than version 1.
I like the 1.8" proposal and just wish they would open it up to more CF rounds such as the 30-30, 35rem, 45-70. I would go for all CF but I just don't see that happening anytime soon.

Xbows in archery is good with me.

I do not care for the EAB in the urban zones but understand what they are trying to achieve, I just don't support EAB's.

Like the late anterless season .

[Spector]

For centerfire rifles they are only concerned with whether you are over the minimum case length and under the maximum case length and meet or exceed the minimum bullet diameter.  They will not concern themselves with whether it is an existing pistol cartrige or not.

That is what an Indiana Conservation Officer told me when I questioned whether my Swiss Vetterli 10.4x38 cartridges would qualify as deer legal ammunition.

That is why new wildcat rifle cartridges are being created just to meet Indiana's case size specifications......Mike

[Hank in Indiana]

Notice that rifle cartridge length is increased to 1.80,  Now I need Marlin to make me a S&W 460 in a nice lever gun. 

Marlin already makes one, the 45-70. Trim the case to 1.8" Get some 350g bullets with two canalures and crimp at the longest COL. It will be approx .050" shorter than a standard 45-70 COL. 350 g, 2050 fps, 1 minute accuracy. Sounds like a 460 to me.

[Spector]

I saw several Indiana Conservation Officers at a meeting Thursday evening and asked one of them if he beleives the 1.8'' cartridge length would go into effect this year, or next year, if the new rules are adopted at all.

He said he feels pretty sure they would not go into effect until next year as they don't seem to want to put emergency rules into effect much anymore.

Just one man's opinion, but if it were me I wouldn't chamber any rifles for wildcats based on a 1.8'' case length and expect to deer hunt with it in Indiana during this year's season.

I can still use my Swiss Vetterli and make the 1.625'' length this year as I still have a small number of cartridges made up at that case length left over from last year.  I prefer longer necks myself and my rifle will chamber and fire them just fine if and when they accept the longer case length.........Mike

[ihookem]

 The 1.8" is amusing to me. Can they explain why ? I always thought a bigger bullet was more dangerous cause more lead flies everywhere when ricocheing off something. A smaller bullet is actually safer no matter how fast it flies. Tell them a .243 with an 85 gr bullet has 1/4 the lead flying around than a 12 ga. slug. I hope they just go with the rifle everywhere and make it easy.

[Spector]

Many things happen in life incrementaly.  When government is involved that is normally a blessing.  They are however moving in the right direction, albeit more slowly than I'd like to see.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but they will likely never address your question and they positively will never answer the question to your satisfaction.......Mike

[dave29]

1.8"is definitely moving in the right direction, but......


I am probably one of the few that are glad we can't use a 7mm Rem Mag, or .300 Win Mag, etc.

I like where the rules (cartridge specs) are going next year, and I hope they don't change them anytime soon after this.

Even though quite the Wildcat can be made with a .357 bullet and a 1.8" case length, the Johnny Come Lately's and the Non-Serious hunters won't own them, just the serious hunters will. I couldn't imagine all of the "pretend" Hunters out there being allowed to hunt with belted magnum rifles. 

[Dinny]

I couldn't imagine all of the "pretend" Hunters out there being allowed to hunt with belted magnum rifles. 

Dave,
  I agree completely, I would fear more for other non-hunting citizens than other hunters. There would be holes in cars and houses from shots made miles away.... Sure as the sun comes up in the morning, someone would take a pot-shot at a squirrel in the top of a tree and launch a 180gr bullet into the next county. 

I would prefer to see one more length increment to 1.810" so as to include the 35 Rem, then we could be done.


Thanks, Dinny

[Old Syko]

Dave, although I agree with you as far as maybe what should or shouldn't be allowed, I have a hard time with the fact that some government body is the one doing the regulating.  Around here all the property owners pretty much stick together with what is allowed and what isn't and with little regard for what government has to say.  This is the way it should be but seldom is.  Slob hunters abound here but don't last long.  As an example, I have a pair of 30cal holes in my shop that were fried from over a mile away and they were put there while I was in there.  After a quick run on the quad I discovered the idiots one of which was the property owners nephew.  This young man hasn't to this day been allowed around a gun on uncles property.  It works better when we take care of our own.  Everyone here loves the handgun hunters especially the single shot specialty folks because they seem to be a bit more conscientious. 

Had another incident a while back that involved a C/O who thought he was going to shoot some coyotes one Saturday morning.  Had he been allowed to shoot it's hard telling what damage he would have done, but his outing was called short.

In reality, only a handful of deer are taken beyond 50 yards, in the southern part of the state at least.  If you think you need extreme horsepower to get the job done, hunting ain't the game for you.  Stick to your Xbox or some other senseless hobby.

[Spector]

''Around here all the property owners pretty much stick together with what is allowed and what isn't and with little regard for what government has to say''.
___________________________________________________
Yep....I think I know at least one of those property owners.  I guess he still allows shooting deer out of season from farm epuipment and the taking of deer that are never tagged. 

He's a really nice guy.....and I sincerely mean that.  However he's not someone I'd want regulating deer populations around here.  He has over 1000 acres he owns and leases, or at least he did last I heard, but I no longer choose to hunt there. 

Bottom line rules with him and fewer deer means more harvest for him.  As much as I liked him I did not feel comfortable around people who knowingly allow people to hunt like that on their property.

I used to hunt with a fellow who slid along a muddy ditch just to get the license number off a truck that belonged to turkey poachers.  CO nabbed them when they tried a getaway in the truck.  The driver had not been out of prison long.  He'd done time for killing his father-in-law.   

That's the end I want to see for game law violators whether they be landowners or just visitors.  The fellow and his buddies split a nice reward from the Turkey Federation, but that was not their motivation for getting involved in nabbing those losers.....Mike.

[Old Syko]

Spector,  Nothing was mentioned about poachers or illegal activity other than slob hunters and shooters.  As a matter of fact, just the opposite.  You see you wouldn't be allowed to hunt around here because nobody knows you or can vouch for you as to whether or not you would follow our rules and be safe while doing it.  One of the local property owners happens to be a CO.  How much poaching do you think he allows?

[ChrisK]

I couldn't imagine all of the "pretend" Hunters out there being allowed to hunt with belted magnum rifles. 

Dave,
  I agree completely, I would fear more for other non-hunting citizens than other hunters. There would be holes in cars and houses from shots made miles away.... Sure as the sun comes up in the morning, someone would take a pot-shot at a squirrel in the top of a tree and launch a 180gr bullet into the next county. 

I would prefer to see one more length increment to 1.810" so as to include the 35 Rem, then we could be done.


Thanks, Dinny



I don't agree, I think if we were on State Property yes they should be able to tell us what we can or can't use. On Private land I just don't think that they should it should be up to the land owner. No matter what caliber you use it is up to the person using the that particular weapon to know what his backstop is. We already have laws regarding reckless discharge. Don't forget if we wanted to we could use those belted magnums in a handgun. If we used this principle that man if they made it legal to use magnum cartridges they would be shooting them from there trucks or shooting neighbors. Every year they people do this with a 12 gauage or a 20 gauge. It would be better if we enforce some of the current laws on the books instead of just calling them accidents or letting folks who do discharge firearms illegally plea bargin there charges away or just dropping there charges. I very much doubt that accidents would increase enough to raise a percentage point.

[ChrisK]

people already take pop shots at tree rats with .22's, shot guns, handguns, belted mags, pellet guns, non magnums and slingshots. Should we get rid of those as well because the potentional chance that someone will discharge it in a unsafe matter? Most will do this whether deer season is in or out.

[Dinny]

people already take pop shots at tree rats with .22's, shotguns, handguns, belted mags, pellet guns, non magnums and slingshots. Should we get rid of those as well because the potentional chance that someone will discharge it in a unsafe matter? Most will do this whether deer season is in or out.

Anyone who takes potshots at tree rats with a high-powered rifle is an idiot and should not be hunting, especially if it's a belted magnum. That is irresponsible behavior that should not be tolerated at anytime. Having the option to use any high-powered rifle would expose us to more of that.

Also in regards to the magnum pistols, who's using them? More than likely it's not some Bubba, but rather an experienced silhouette shooter or someone much the same.


Thanks, Dinny

[dieselman]

In all the years I have hunted in this fine state... I have never seen a deer that needed a mag round of any kind to take them down.... I would like to see small 30 cal rounds in there though... that would be fun... 7.62x39mm for one.. or even the 30-223... and the like....

[dave29]

people already take pop shots at tree rats with .22's, shotguns, handguns, belted mags, pellet guns, non magnums and slingshots. Should we get rid of those as well because the potentional chance that someone will discharge it in a unsafe matter? Most will do this whether deer season is in or out.

Anyone who takes potshots at tree rats with a high-powered rifle is an idiot and should not be hunting, especially if it's a belted magnum. That is irresponsible behavior that should not be tolerated at anytime. Having the option to use any high-powered rifle would expose us to more of that.

Also in regards to the magnum pistols, who's using them? More than likely it's not some Bubba, but rather an experienced silhouette shooter or someone much the same.


Thanks, Dinny

+1 Dinny

[Indiana Denny]

Everyone has an opinion.  The 458 , the 450 Bushmaster , a 50 Hushpuppy, I was thinking of getting a 458 upper till I see the ammo and cost of upper. I have a 357 Max and think of 44 mag converted to 445 Super MAg.  How much gun do you need ?  Save your self some and buy ammo and shoot your deer in the kill zone with one shot.  Spray and pray indeed

[Swift One]

Tell them a .243 with an 85 gr bullet has 1/4 the lead flying around than a 12 ga. slug.

Yes, but that 12ga slug is mooving at 1/4 of the speed of the 243.  A responsible hunter can a take a 50BMG and hunt smart and safe just outside city limits.  An idiot can shoot and kill another hunter with a 22LR in the BLM of WY.  It's the hunter- not the cartridge size that can be dangerous. I'm on the fence about incoorperating a true rifle season for deer in Indiana.  And I love to shoot high power rifle.

[broom_jm]

I've hunted in Wisconsin and Michigan, both of which have areas of their respective states that are restricted to weapons of limited range, but both also have areas where conventional centerfire rifles can be used.  Neither state has a statistically higher incidence of accidental shootings, not per capita.  Indiana should follow their model, with most of the state being perfectly safe for powerful centerfire rounds.

There is no logical reason for Indiana to disallow centerfire rifle cartridges from 243 to the most powerful magnums.  The original laws were implemented to restrict harvest of a very limited resource.   The laws were not originally written for public safety; that is a fairly recent contrivance to justify their continued existence.  Look it up.  It has been misinformation and intractability that have kept such absurd laws on the books.  One needs no further proof than to analyze the data since PCR's were implemented to understand that there is no reason to not allow hunters to use regular rifle cartridges.  The naysayers predicted much doom n' gloom when the lever-action repeaters were allowed, claiming more people would be shot and deer populations would plummet.  Every indication is that neither has occurred...and it was ridiculous to think either would happen in the first place.

Furthermore, if you study the potential dangers associated with bullets and slugs that ricochet off hard objects, you will find that slugs pose a far greater danger; high-speed bullets, by comparison, are frangible and unstable in flight when disrupted.  Slugs carry much farther after a ricochet than the bullet from a 30-'06, for example...scientific fact.

All told, it is "tradition" and out-of-date information that keeps Indiana's laws the way they are.  Fortunately, good whitetail hunters know that if you can SEE 300 yards, you probably won't be seeing a deer.  There are exceptions to this, and in many parts of the state, there is not a single valid reason to prevent hunters from shooting cartridges with greater range.  Do some research and you'll find that the laws we hunt under are simply not consistent with the facts.  Like so many dumb laws, they only exist because nobody has fought hard enough to have them rescinded.