Medical bills, Obamacare and bankruptcy

[SwampThing762]

I was reading another thread and I decided that one of TM7's replies was an idea to start a new thread and discussion since it would be OT for the original thread.

By far the leading cause of family and personal bankruptcy in the USA is medical bills, and this is for persons having HC insurance..!

..TM7


TM7's statement is accurate.  I worked in a major hospital in Jacksonville, FL in the Patient Accounting Department.    Part of that department's duties is arranging for charitable care and contributions for people that cannot afford care.    However, Obama wants to reduce and eliminate charitable care from hospitals and medical providers.

The largest problem with the cost of healthcare is not the ability or inability to pay for care, it is those who choose not to pay after receiving care.    Part of my solution is a complete reformation of EMTALA, and strengthening debt collections and forfeiture laws.

I would like to hear solutions from other members.......
   

[kennyd]

How will strengthening forfeiture laws help?  With a wife recovering from cancer, hip, and other things, I am just about whipped.  I have already postponed some things I maybe should have done for myself as I cannot pay the deductables and out of pocket, 'specially if I miss any work.  I have already figured that there is a point where I will take the "short" path instead of having to cash in my retirement, life insurance, and maybe mortgage (lose) the home.  The fear is that I would leave a destitute wife.


I have seen some of the bills of workmates and my own with astounding figures on them, and have seen a couple of them "settled" for 10%.  I also know that nearly $1000 I paid for insurance every month (wife just became medicare age, which saves, a bundle right now) didn't come anywhere close to the cost of her treatment, 


I know there are some out there scamming thy system, hiding boats, airplanes, cars, and all, but also know of some who don't have enough to put a full tank of gas in the old Buick or whatever.  And they live in doublewides and pay the lot rent or live in an apartment.

[SwampThing762]

TM7, we already have universal healthcare -- it is called EMTALA.    The problem is, we have illegals coming in from Mexico, by choice, getting healthcare services, and choosing to return to Mexico without paying a cent, er, peso toward the bill.  We also have American citizens that go to the hospital with minor ailments for treatment because they are lazy, and then choose not to pay the bill because they no there is no legal compulsion to pay for services.

kennyd, you are part of the honest population of Americans that works for a living a pays your bills.   You absolutely do your part to help manage costs.  I say "manage" for lack of a better word.   If your wife has multiple illnesses and ailments creating large bills, perhaps you should approach the hospital for charity assistance.   When I worked for the hospital, I helped lots of people qualify to get free healthcare through charity assistance.  One thing about Medicare and coordination of benefits .... as long as you are still working, your insurance is the primary carrier; as such, most hospitals write off the balance billed to medicare if primary carrier payment is greater than the cost that medicare allows.  That could save you a ton of money.  But, remember, if you need it, federal law allows hospitals to provide charitable care writeoffs of bills.

My position of strengthening the forfeiture and collection laws is for those people who are scamming the system.   By having a legal mechanism that can directly address the cost issue.   I also suggest reforming EMTALA guidelines, as you can then exclude the illegals coming across the border and getting free healthcare for which they have no intention making a contribution.

kennyd,  I will pray for a complete recovery for your wife. 

ST762

[bobg]

   My wife was in the hospital for 13 months in a coma after a heart transplant that went wrong. I got a bill for over $100,000. I went in the office and ask if there was some way she could work out a payment plan. She told me she would work on something and call me in a day or two. Got a call later and was told the bill was taken care of. I ask how that was possibe. She told me i didn't need to know that. All i needed to know was the bill was paid in full. Never did find out how it was done.

[mechanic]

My wife went through 48 weeks of chemo and associated lab tests.  Insurance considered the treatment "experimental" and only paid 60%.  That was 5 years ago, and I'm still paying the bills.  Only $22,000 or so left to go. 
 
I did consult an attorney, who told me that if I went bankrupt, I would lose any cash assets other  than my main home, and it could be attached.
 
I made personal loans  to cover the bills, because I could not meet the terms set by all the medical suppliers.
 
On the other side of the coin, my wife is alive and well, and would not be but for the treatment.  So I do feel I NEED  to pay these people.
 
Healthcare went south when the hospitals were required to offer treatment regardless of payment.  My bills were high, because I'm paying for some who could not pay, and some who would not pay.
 
It's a double edged sword.
 
Ben

[BUGEYE]

If your spouse is sick enough for those kind of bills, you don't want to drop bankruptcy in her lap
go to the hospital administrator with your hat in your hand and something can be worked out.
if they demand too much per month, decide what you can pay, write a check for that amount and note that it is payment #1 your account number. hand it to him and leave.  if they cash your check, that's proof of their intent  to accept your terms.

[Cuts Crooked]

If your spouse is sick enough for those kind of bills, you don't want to drop bankruptcy in her lap
go to the hospital administrator with your hat in your hand and something can be worked out.
if they demand too much per month, decide what you can pay, write a check for that amount and note that it is payment #1 your account number. hand it to him and leave.  if they cash your check, that's proof of their intent  to accept your terms.

+1

[Cuts Crooked]

And since "obama care is mentioned in the topic title...........which is worse some bankrupt people, or a bankrupt nation?

[BUGEYE]

And since "obama care is mentioned in the topic title...........which is worse some bankrupt people, or a bankrupt nation?

we sure agree about this topic.

[SwampThing762]

TM7,

Just a question -- have you done self-pay work with the uninsured in a hospital?   I have.   I have also worked in the ED at the same hospital. 

The ED is not the biggest profit center of a hospital, contrary to popular opinion.    The ED is the biggest liability to a hospital.   People come to the ED with cold symptoms that can be treated with a trip to the pharmacy.   They get treatment and disappear.  There is never payment for services.   On any given month, our hospital would send over $150,00 in unpaid self-pay accounts to collection agencies, and that is just average.  Sometimes, the amount is much greater.   And that is people that live here....legally.    It is a very similar story with illegals.    In 2009, while I was working at the hospital, we had a patient that was here illegally, and came through the ED.  The patient was a migrant worker, and his leg was slashed to the bone requiring surgery and a long inpatient stay and inpatient PT.  The bill was over $200,000; we took a charity application for the guy but the info was fraudulent and the guy disappeared once he got his discharge papers.  The hospital had to absorb every penny of those charges.  That is just one story.

The point is is this........deal with the mechanisms that drive the increase hospital charges.    Obamacare has not addressed any of these factors; Obummer's pet law has actually increased costs from insurance carriers and lowered reimbursement rates to providers.      Costs continue to rise despite Obamacare, and the causal factors remain the same today as last year.

Yes, the HC is becoming an onerous burden -- payers paying ever-increasing costs for the freeloaders and parasites,  Obummer and liberals talk about paying "their fair share" -- compel the parasites to pay up, or allow us to confiscate their money just like the left attempts to confiscate money from people who already "pay their fair share".

ST762

TM7,

I worked at a non-profit hospital.    The problem with the illegals in healthcare is that they know the system as well as the other leeches -- they cannot legally be compelled to pay for services.  Until that changes, there can be no effective healthcare reform in America.

TM7, you said
" If you're happy with this syndrome of payers paying for uninsured HC then don't reform HC in America.... At least Obamacare tried to address the freeloaders escaping paying for HC....only thing is they really mucked it up and made the program a gift to HC insurance corps."

I am not happy with the syndrome of payers like you [I assume you pay your medical bills] and me paying for the freeloading leeches and parasites.  Obamacare does nothing to address that issue-- Obamacare charges you a 3% tax everytime you go to your primary care doctor to pay for the uninsured (read "parasites"); you are also charged everytime you go to a tanning bed.  You will be charged an extra 10% for durable medical equipment, and many other taxes.  You will, also, be immediately taxed the assessment of the increased insurance premiums so there will be coverage for the uninsured (read "parasites").

There is no mechanism in Obamacare that addresses the central cause of rising HC rates -- legal compulsion to make the parasites engage in that favorite liberal phrase -- "pay their fair share".   The IRS and government already confiscate late tax payments and child support payments, maybe we should add medical balances to that (yea, I am a hardcase on the subject).
Once we can legally compel the parasites to "pay their fair share" or limit their ability to damage the system for honest folk (your healthcare slavery -- honest folk paying for parasites).

The final analysis is this.....Obamacare is not a gift to healthcare companies, it is a tombstone.   If you feel differently, please elaborate.

ST762

[magooch]

What seems to work real well is HMO's that have their own doctors and facilities and don't have to allow non-members in.  It works for me.