Author Topic: First day with the Savage... (Read 1374 times)

big6x6 · « **on:** February 04, 2004, 04:40:41 PM »

It went pretty good. It usually take me two or three trips to the range to sort things out with a muzzleloader and it looks as if the Savage will be no different.

I tried NONE of the powder recommeded by Savage or Randy. My local dealers just don't have much at the burn rate that is most suitable. Most is either way slower or too fast. I elected to go with AA2015 that I HAVE for my 6PPC/BR and bought some RL-7(along with some 2400, IMR 4198, and IMR 4227 that I may try later). Each powder shows some promise. I tried .429 300gr XTPs, 360gr and 300gr Extremes, and a few 250gr PTXs. I shot several groups less than two inches but no real consistancy.

HOPEFULLY the next trip to the range will be Sunday. I'll try some different things and I'll be more familiar with the gun. Hopefully some consistant groups will show up.

Here's a pic: http://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/muzzleloaderpics//websize/savagesheridan1400gps%20002.jpg

Savage smokeless loading paraphernalia:
http://photos.imageevent.com/chill6x6/muzzleloaderpics//websize/savagesheridan1400gps%20004.jpg

grouse · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2004, 04:52:03 PM »

Big 6x6,
Nice pictures of all your toys. What kind of
shooting rest is that?

Mel Taylor · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2004, 05:35:22 PM »

I've been shooting Savage ML's for a little over 3 years now and have both an ML-I and a ML-II. I've found that I get good to great, hundred yard, accuracy with almost any bullet of .451 or .452 diameter with a black MMP sabot. I can't get decent accuracy out of either rifle with any bullet of less than .451 diameter.

Savage used to recommend .34 grains of 2400 in the ML-I and I actually got my best accuracy with 34 to 38 grains of 2400 behind a .452 Hornady XTP bullet. Unfortunately 2400 is hard to ignite and prone to misfire so I switched to AA5744. 42 to 45 grains of that behind a .452 XTP or a .453 Shockwave gives nearly as good accuracy and virtually no misfires.

Mel

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2004, 05:42:19 PM »

Quote from: grouse

What kind of
shooting rest is that?

I believe that is the Caldwell "Rock"-- by Midway / Battenfield, available from Midway USA.

big6x6 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2004, 01:30:24 AM »

"I believe that is the Caldwell "Rock"-- by Midway / Battenfield, available from Midway USA."

It is. That's the best rest one can get for the money. I have several different rests including a $300.00 Hart/Hoehn windage-adjustable rest and for 99% of my applications, the Caldwell "Rock" does just as well.

"I can't get decent accuracy out of either rifle with any bullet of less than .451 diameter."

The .429/.430 300gr XTP actually showed some promise shooting a 1.1 inch group with 59.0gr AA2015. Next range session will include some Dead Center 240gr, SST 250gr, and Platinum Tip 260gr. AA5744 will be here shortly.

1SHOT-1KILL · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2004, 02:33:54 AM »

6x6,

In the 13+ years I have been shooting smokeless muzzleloaders, I have never been able to get .429 diameter bullets to shoot well at all. The .4515 and .452 diameter bullets have been by far the best shooters. The only thing about AA2015 powder, is that even with a 59gr charge you still are only around 2,000 FPS, if that.

You said that you had some IMR-4227, you may want to give that a try, with charges from 44-48 grains. With 250gr bullets you should be in the 2,250-2,350 FPS range, and with 300gr bullets you should be in the 2,150-2,250 FPS range. I have been shooting IMR-4227 in 10ML's and 10ML-II's for about 6 years now, and it has been a consistant performer, in both velocity and accuracy. One load that I can count on with IMR-4227, is 48gr and a .452 330gr XTP, with MMP sabot. This load is good for 2,220 FPS and 1.25" groups. I have taken at least a couple deer with the load at ranges from 40yds to 250yds.

I am not sure about the 240gr bullets, as I have not shot any. Also, if you can find any IMR-4759 powder, you may want to give that try as well. It has been giving extremely good velocities and accuracy with .451-.452 bullets in the 250gr range.

Also, the 2 sabots that have prerformed the best in the 10ML-II has been the MMP and the Hornday Hi-Pressure sabots.

big6x6 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2004, 02:53:46 AM »

"In the 13+ years I have been shooting smokeless muzzleloaders, I have never been able to get .429 diameter bullets to shoot well at all.'

I have generally had pretty good luck with them. The 240gr .429 XTPs, Harvester/Rainier, and Cheap Shot saboted bullets all shoot GREAT out of my girlfriends Knight Wolverine 209 Youth. The Sierra .429 240gr JHC shoots great in my Black Diamond.

Most shooters DO seem to agree that the .451/.452s are more accurate than the .429/.430s in the majority of muzzleloaders as a general rule of thumb.

simonkenton · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2004, 03:05:38 AM »

6x6---One Shot One Kill is talking about poor performance of the .429 in a smokeless gun. The smokeless puts lots more pressure on the smaller slug than your conventional inlines.
Give them a go, if you can make them work in your Savage, at a high mv of 2,300 to 2,400 fps you will be one of the few who has ever done so.

big6x6 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2004, 01:45:21 AM »

"6x6---One Shot One Kill is talking about poor performance of the .429 in a smokeless gun.'

Yes sir. It has ALSO been said many times that .429/.430 projectiles aren't as accurate as .451/.452 projectiles, period, smokeless or not. I have demonstrated this to not be so. MANY of the fine shooting QT and Dead Center projectiles are sub .45 caliber.

"The smokeless puts lots more pressure on the smaller slug than your conventional inlines."

Yes sir, I realize that. If that's the ONLY issue, then a MMP "Ballistic Bridge Sub-Base" should take care of that problem, shouldn't it? I plan on trying several different "non-451/452" projectiles such as Dead Centers' 240gr and a QT 250gr. Any time a smaller diameter projectile can be used the ballistic coefficient goes up. That's free better trajectory, free more retained energy downrange, free decreased wind resistance, and free maximum point blank range.

"Give them a go, if you can make them work in your Savage, at a high mv of 2,300 to 2,400 fps you will be one of the few who has ever done so.'

I'm not really THAT interested in obtaining stratospheric velocities with my Savage. If I don't get there, no big deal. All I want is accuracy that is repeatable at around 2100-2200fps AND the added feature of easier maintance.

simonkenton · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2004, 04:50:21 AM »

6x6 I was trying to give a little friendly information, which I thought you may have been unaware of, since you just got your gun.
I was unaware that you already know it all.
By the way, 2300 fps with a 240 grain slug is hardly "stratospheric", from a Savage.

big6x6 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2004, 01:33:25 PM »

"6x6 I was trying to give a little friendly information"

ALWAYS a good thing.

"I was unaware that you already know it all."

I don't and have never so implied. I do know SOMETHING though.

"By the way, 2300 fps with a 240 grain slug is hardly "stratospheric", from a Savage."

Now that you list a projectile weight, well, no it's not.

RandyWakeman · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2004, 06:20:25 PM »

10ML-II Velocities (CH) 35 degrees F (6 shot avg. velocities)

360 gr. PR Bullet Extreme 60 gr. RL-7 2037 fps

Chuck,

Based on your results above-- looks like a smooth 250 yard moose load to me!

Name: .45 Cal, PR Bullet , 360 grn
Ballistic Coeff: 0.300
Bullet Weight: 360
Velocity: 2037
Target Distance: 200
Scope Height: 1.500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 2037 fps 3317 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in
25 yds 0.92 in 1976 fps 3119 fpe 0.037 sec 0.27 in -0.53 in 0.10 in
50 yds 2.80 in 1915 fps 2930 fpe 0.075 sec 1.07 in -0.32 in 0.30 in
75 yds 4.08 in 1855 fps 2751 fpe 0.115 sec 2.48 in 0.04 in 0.80 in
100 yds 4.72 in 1798 fps 2583 fpe 0.156 sec 4.53 in 0.59 in 1.59 in
125 yds 4.66 in 1741 fps 2424 fpe 0.199 sec 7.27 in 1.33 in 2.64 in
150 yds 3.88 in 1687 fps 2274 fpe 0.243 sec 10.74 in 2.28 in 3.94 in
175 yds 2.33 in 1633 fps 2131 fpe 0.289 sec 14.97 in 3.45 in 5.46 in
200 yds 0.00 in 1581 fps 1997 fpe 0.335 sec 19.99 in 4.87 in 7.19 in
225 yds -3.14 in 1529 fps 1869 fpe 0.383 sec 25.81 in 6.53 in 9.11 in
250 yds -7.24 in 1480 fps 1751 fpe 0.433 sec 32.60 in 8.50 in 11.38 in

big6x6 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2004, 01:40:27 AM »

Yeah... That RL -7 turned out to be pretty hot stuff..

I really don't know what one COULDN'T do with a 360gr .45 cal lead projectile starting off at 2037fps. It KICKED pretty good too.

1SHOT-1KILL · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2004, 03:29:44 AM »

:-D

If 6x6 thinks RL-7 is "pretty hot stuff".......just wait until he tries 60gr of Lil Gun!

big6x6 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2004, 03:40:24 AM »

It IS hot when compared to same grain weight of XMR 2015.
PR Extreme 253 360gr
XMR-2015 59.0gr 1786fps
RL-7 59.0gr 2037fps

I have some XMR 5744 and V-V N-110 coming in. Throw in the IMR 4227 I all ready have and I have plenty to shoot for a while.