Author Topic: Welded on trunions?  (Read 1134 times)

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Offline Leatherneck

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Welded on trunions?
« on: May 23, 2012, 04:30:46 AM »
What are your opinions on trunions that were welded onto the barrel and not machined out of the original block of steel?
Are there certain pressures you wont be able to reach with those barrels?

Offline armorer77

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Re: Welded on trunions?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2012, 08:46:02 AM »
I weld the trunnions on all my barrels . I also press fit a 3/4" stub into a hole in the barrel . In " How to blow up a cannon  " I got up to 1100 grs FFFFg with 5 1 lb. lead balls . No trunnion failure . I use TIG with mild steel rod . The trunnions held while 2 4x6 timbers in the base broke in two . Ed

Offline Leatherneck

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Re: Welded on trunions?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2012, 10:07:02 AM »
Thanks, thats very comforting to hear.

Offline Doc Brown.

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Re: Welded on trunnions?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2012, 07:20:13 PM »
Testing.

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Welded on trunnions?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2012, 09:09:59 PM »
I have never heard of anyone machining the trunnions out of the original block of steel. If you can find one let me know.  It would be a first for me. Im not saying its never been done I just cant imagine all that waste of steel.

http://www.seacoastartillery.com/parrot2.php

"Tube Construction: Entire tube, including cascabel, reinforce, trunnions and front sight boss is lathe turned and milled from one solid 216 pound “ROUND"."
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Leatherneck

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Re: Welded on trunions?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2012, 03:02:04 AM »
http://brooks-usa.com/
Michael at Brooks USA also machines them out of a solid block.
Thanks so much for the seacoast artillery link.
I guess I should worry more about how well the capsquares are secured. I have a general consensus now.

Offline Double D

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Re: Welded on trunnions?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2012, 04:56:33 AM »
I have never heard of anyone machining the trunnions out of the original block of steel. If you can find one let me know.  It would be a first for me. Im not saying its never been done I just cant imagine all that waste of steel.
 
All Pressed in with from .125 to .25 wall thickness. Going to blow out? I have filled half the barrel with 3F several times on most of them barrels and all that happened was the barrels launched  through the air about 2 or 3 feet. Then again they are 90,000PSI tensile strength maybe thats why the trunnions don't blow out.

No not blow out. Bent out from shear. 

Do this.  Press in  set of trunnions in  a barrel.  Put a rod in a vise and slide the barrel over the rod.  With a 5 lb hand sledge and one hand raise your hand to shoulder level and start hitting the end of the trunnion, count how many strokes until the trunnion pops out.

You can do this with screwed in trunnions and see how long it take for them to loosen.

 

Offline Doc Brown.

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Re: Welded on trunions?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2012, 06:42:42 AM »
http://brooks-usa.com/
Michael at Brooks USA also machines them out of a solid block.
Thanks so much for the seacoast artillery link.
I guess I should worry more about how well the capsquares are secured. I have a general consensus now.

I don't believe that the brooks usa trunnions are not pressed in. Someone confirm they are machined from the solid round bar. 

Offline Doc Brown.

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Re: Welded on trunnions?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2012, 06:49:04 AM »
I have never heard of anyone machining the trunnions out of the original block of steel. If you can find one let me know.  It would be a first for me. Im not saying its never been done I just cant imagine all that waste of steel.
 
All Pressed in with from .125 to .25 wall thickness. Going to blow out? I have filled half the barrel with 3F several times on most of them barrels and all that happened was the barrels launched  through the air about 2 or 3 feet. Then again they are 90,000PSI tensile strength maybe thats why the trunnions don't blow out.

No not blow out. Bent out from shear. 

Do this.  Press in  set of trunnions in  a barrel.  Put a rod in a vise and slide the barrel over the rod.  With a 5 lb hand sledge and one hand raise your hand to shoulder level and start hitting the end of the trunnion, count how many strokes until the trunnion pops out.

You can do this with screwed in trunnions and see how long it take for them to loosen.

I have always wanted to do this and I will video tape it soon. Thanks.

Offline Leatherneck

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Re: Welded on trunions?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2012, 06:51:37 AM »
On average, how long does it take for these folks to machine you a barrel?

Offline Doc Brown.

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Re: Welded on trunions?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2012, 07:02:30 AM »
About a hour. All pressed in trunnions and the saw is cutting them now.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Welded on trunions?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2012, 07:25:41 AM »
http://brooks-usa.com/

Michael at Brooks USA also machines them out of a solid block.
Thanks so much for the seacoast artillery link.
I guess I should worry more about how well the capsquares are secured. I have a general consensus now.   


     Leatherneck,      No, they do not.  See their description below quoted directly from their web site obtained from YOUR LINK:

MOUNTAIN HOWITZER, 50 Caliber Black Powder Cannon Barrel for signal / salute. Made from finest quality extruded brass rod. Breech is a full 1 1/2" diameter, overall length approx. 7 1/2". Complete with 1/2" diameter interference fit trunions.                         Barrel only. Ready for your carriage! Order ITEM #0502------------$112.00 [/size][/font]

    By the way, for the use intended, blanks and firecracker shooting with extremely light recoil, this is a perfectly adequate way to attach trunnions for their cannons.

Tracy


Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Leatherneck

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Re: Welded on trunions?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2012, 10:07:21 AM »
Tracy, does your business make different barrels if plans are provided?

Offline gunsonwheels

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Re: Welded on trunions?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2012, 11:27:14 AM »
dockholidaiy wrote:
 
Quote
I have never heard of anyone machining the trunnions out of the original block of steel. If you can find one let me know.  It would be a first for me. Im not saying its never been done I just cant imagine all that waste of steel.

If you look at the barrel M&T from seacostartillery did in the thread below...
 
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,256445.0.html
 
Many finished, rifled ordnance barrels are built up by over-sleeving a rifled mil-surp tube which has been turned down to look exactly like M&T's test barrel in the thread above.  After turning the OD of that tube to a very consistent dimension (probably no more than .002" total variation), they get some precision boring company (if they don't have the tools and abillity themselves) to drill/bore/hone sleeve(s) which are .001" to .003" smaller than the core's OD.  The sleeve(s) are then heat shrunk over the outside of the rifled core and welded at the interfaces on the OD (between sleeves) and the ID (both between sleeves and at the ends).  In many cases the sleeving will take the form of not a single sleeve the total length of the barrel but two or three.  Most of my designs call for a single sleeve leading up to the trunnions and two additional sleeves forward of the trunnions.   All the OD welds are planned so they will turn down smooth when the finished barrel's profile is machined.  The reason whole-length sleeving is avoided is to reduce the chance of the sleeve locking onto the core as it is heated and slid onto that core before it is fully seated into its planned position.  And of course after all the work above is added turning a cascabel and profiling the finished barrel's OD.
 
For some of us designer/fabricators there is another sleeve added to the OUTSIDE DIAMETER sleeves...
 
The pic is of the 4" thick plate trunnion section sleeve stock...  It is set up on the mill and precision bored the hole which goes over the rifle core.  Mounted in the lathe and turn the trunnions, rim-base faces and start of the rim-base shoulders.  Include the sleeve in the sleeving buildup over the rifled core.  After turning the profile of the fininshed barrel, hand blend the balance of the rimbases and diameter sections where the trunnions prevented lathe turning that part of the OD.
 
For those of you left still reading... THIS is why M&T's offer to do blind hole drilled and rifled tubes WITH SUFFICIENT OD TO TURN A FINISHED BARREL is such an enormous time-saving offer...
 
At the Casper, WY shoot a couple years ago I questioned all the rifle shooters and MOST had gone through the long, arduous procedure above.  A few others had full-length sleeved and welded trunnions onto the outer sleeve.  Anyway other than a Seacoast Artillery barrel blank is a TON of work... and that will be work enough for most!!
 
GOW/George