Reloading DOWN a 458 win. magnum.....

[Dogmann]

Guys- I'm just getting started in reloading- I have a 458 win mag ruger #1 which I just bought. I want to handload some 458's down to 45/70 velocity thumpers in this gun. I dont want to break my shoulder- just above avg- to hot 45/70 velocities . Heres what I have

IMR3031 powder
Hornady 500G FMJ .458 bullets
Hornady 500G SP .458 bullets
Magnum rifle primers
Hornady 458 win mag 3 die full length series II set
200 pieces of new Winchester unprimed brass


Like I said Im new to this. I just bought a LEE anniversary reloading set for cheap. Will any press work with these dies? Can you tell me if the powder I have is good for this caliber?
Whats a good load recipe for a softer shooting 458win mag!??..

[alan in ga]

I would suggest 400 grain/350 grain/ and 300 grain bullets. I've had lots of fun with these in 45/70, 458 American and 458 Win Mags. and I used 3031.
I also enjoyed paper patching .451-.452" bullets up to .460" or so....and shot a nice buck with the Speer 250 SWC swaged lead pistol bullet.....perfect expansion. {see recovered bullet in photo}
Lots of fun to be had with the .458 bores!

[Lloyd Smale]

you can take about any load out of a book for a 4570 for marlin or rugers and use it in 458 brass. It will give a bit less velocity but powder charges and bullets for a marlin 4570 load used in 458 brass will still kill anything walking. For a fun plinking load what i used to use in my #1 458 was 22 grains of 2400 and a 500 grain cast bullet. very little recoil and still enough power to kill any deer or black bear walking. I used the rcbs 500 rfgc bullet and left the lube out of top to groves and used the second one to crimp in due to the long throat in these guns. that load used to shoot into an inch a 100 yards loaded like that.

[Dogmann]

Since the case is not being filled all the way is there such a thing as a filler to compensate?

[LanceR]

Dogmann, Hodgdon does not recommend any powder but H4895 for reduced loads.  They did have some reduced loads with other powders listed in the past but pulled them from their website some time ago due to potential pressure and ignition issues.  You can load H4895 down to 60% of the published maximum charge for any cartridge listed for H4895.

http://hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

Hodgdon has H4895 loads for bullets from 350 to 500 grains on their site.  No filler is needed for the reduced loads.  My experience has been that velocity reductions are pretty much in line with the percentage you reduce the max charge but your mileage may differ.

Lance

Edit:  I was not as accurate as  could have been in the reply above.  Hodgdon also has reduced loads for Trail Boss but I don't think they will reach the velocities you want.

http://hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20Boss%20Reduced%20Loads%20R&P.pdf

Out of curiosity, when you write about "just above avg- to hot 45/70 velocities" are you referring to historical or modern 45-70 loads?

[mauserand9mm]

I've used Trailboss behind 405gn cast for 1000fps (sub-sonic) - haven't shot anything larger than rabbits with this load.
I also use 41gns of AR2207 behind a 500gn cast for about 1600fps. No filler used. I've used slightly slower powders to try and fill the case up a bit more but ran into ignition problems, even with a filler. I've used this load on pigs but the hard cast projectiles always exit even if they hit bone - still kills them though.

[BBF]

Speer Manual #9 lists 30 gr of SR 4759 as a max load resulting in 1400 fps using their 400 gr FN bullet.
 
Lyman# 48 lists in addition to the above powder:
 
 XMP 5744 starting at 34.0 gr to 39.5 gr max with MV's of 1200 to 1380 fps for the 500 gr Hdy RN

[mauserand9mm]

There's also the controversial issue regarding the use of pistol/shotgun powders for reduced loads. While many people use successfully, there are some potential issues. I personally won't ever use a pistol/shotgun powder for a reduced load in a straight walled case (filler or no filler). A friend of mine has a 458WM with a ringed chamber as the result of using cast loads with Unique (nothing against this powder though).

[vk4ale]

458 win mag down loads using win brass win mag primers and AR2206h( H4895)  powder 500gn hard caste bullets= 53gn 1450fps,55gn1555,56.5gn 1630fps Lee factory crimp die, OAL 3.320.Using same powder and Hornady 500gn Interlock Bullet 56gn 1550fps, 57gn 1605fps,60gn 1675fps, 64gn 1880 fps lee F C D, OAL3.320.       Win brass Win Mag Priner and same  Powder, Rem 405gn bullets = 66.5gn 1850 fps, 68gn 1900fps, 70gn 1980-2000fps,Lee FCD OAL3.240.        Same Brass,Primer and using Reloader Powder=R/7 64gn 405gn rem bullet 2000 FPS, LFCD OAL 3.240. I use Lee Dies and after firing I only partly resize (ie back your Sizing Die out) and after every 3rd firing I aneal top of brass maybe( half inch ) stand brass in 1in of water and when top starts to glow a little bit red flick them over in the water. Have fun 458 are a lot of fun, all the above loads are able to group around 1 inch. Cheers Allan

[vk4ale]

I Anneal after every 3rd firing, Your brass will last a long time Allan.

[JeffG]

I am sold on lead  bullets for low loads. My sweetheart load in my .458 is:

460 gr Cast Performance flat point gas check
40 gr H322
Remington mag primer

Velocity about 1500 fps

Try it, you'll like it....

[mauserand9mm]

Since the case is not being filled all the way is there such a thing as a filler to compensate?

Dacron is a popularly used filler. Apparantly cork can be used too, but only for these straight sided cases. And a soft foam too can be used - Kynock make foam fillers for the big stuff (like 470, 500 +). Dacron and foam are compressible/expandable for non straight walled cases.

[vk4ale]

Hi Dogmann,I have never used fillers of any kind in my 45 70s or 458 win mag with the powders I use,and have never had any trouble down loading accurate loads.Lee Factory Crimp Die helps with consistancy.Allan. 

[Darrell Davis]

Dogmann,
 
Look hard at the info Lloyd Smale posts, as he shoots more and different firearms then most of us, and takes more game animals in a couple year period then many of us do in a life time.
 
Personally, I agree with his comments on the .458/45-70 situation, and as far as fillers go, well I don't go there.  If the manual says a filler must be used, I'd switch powders just to avoid the hassle.
 
I know there are a lot of people happy with the use of fillers, but I have heard just enough bad to simply not deal with it.
 
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[keith44]

I do not like fillers, choose a bulkier powder if one calls for a filler.


With IMR 3031 pressures will likely not be an issue, and fillers not needed.  The 45-70 uses a 2.1 inch case, while the .458 Win Mag's case is 2.5 inches in length. 19% more case capacity. (give or take)  Looking at top loads for the Ruger in 45-70, 61.0 grains is a max load.  The .458 shows a starting load of 71.0 grains (both with 3031, both with speers 350 flat nose soft point.  Now look at the spread between the trapdoor springfield starting load and the top load of the Ruger (in 45-70) Starting load is 48 grains of 3031, for a velocity of 1,390.  The top load in the Ruger (61 grains) gives 2,016 fps.  That is a spread of 13 grains.  The spread from top load to starting in the .458 is 4 grains (71.0 - 75 grains) 


Now this is ONLY AN OPINION of what I might consider if I were to try down loading a .458 WIN Mag


Given the 13 grain safe spread of the 45-70 from starting loads for the Trapdoor Springfield to the Top loads of a Ruger #1  Take the Top load of the .458 and subtract 8 grains.  This would give you 67 grains of powder.  Load TWO and only two.  Try them.  If recoil is acceptable load five more, and keep the muzzle pointed down, slowly raise the rifle to level as you shoulder the rifle, and try those 5.  If all is well, load more and enjoy.  Pay close attention to hangfires, and watch closely for signs of excessive pressures.


Again, just an opinion.

[Darrell Davis]

I know that a bunch of people like 3031 in the 45/70, but be aware that it may?? give load volumn problems.
 
When I was developing loads for the 45/70 w/ a 355gr. cast bullet,  I had to back way off -
WAY OFF - because I could not get the bullet seated in some cases, and even with less powder needed to compress the powder so much it deformed the bullet nose, BADLY!
 
With the .458 case being about .4 longer, this may not be an issue.
 
Also, providing you use a heavier and longer bullet, the depth to which you need to seat the bullet will eat up more internal case capacity, which in turn may do away with any possible need for a case filler.
As said, I don't go there!
 
Just because the bullet is heavier, does not mean more recoil, providing velocity is reasonable.
 
I'm putting my 465gr cast out the end of my 22" barrel - RUGER #1S - 45/70 - at 1600 / 1700fps and it is a fine and shootable load.  DEADLY on deer and elk!!
 
I did remove the wafer thin an hard pad and replace it with a real (read thick and soft) recoil pad at the very first.
 
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[sackett-mt]

I am reloading the .458 Win Mag with 46gr of IMR 3031 and a RCBS 45-500gr-FN #85600 bullet. This is not a compressed load, and there is almost no space between the bullet and the powder. This load doesn't require a filler at all, and I never had any hang-fires. I have not checked the velocity, but I believe it is about 1500fps out of my Weatherby DGR.
Please feel free to contact me about this load, or any other concern you may have. I am reloading the .458 Win. Mag. for about thirty years now, high and low.

[keith44]

46 grains of 3031in a .458 case would be mild, about mid level 45-70 range or slightly lower.  48 grains behind a 500 grain cast flat nose shows 1667 fps in some RCBS data I have.  1,500 fps might be a little high, but not by much.

[Lloyd Smale]

light load i shot in mine was 22 grains of 2400 and the rcbs 500 grain round flat gas check bullet. It shot moa out of mine, was a pussy cat to shoot and my wife nailed a hog with it and beleive me it killed it.