Author Topic: Traditions "Sharps"  (Read 2268 times)

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Offline Beekeeper

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Traditions "Sharps"
« on: September 04, 2004, 02:31:22 PM »
Does Pedersoli make the Traditions sharps 1874 rifles in .45-70?  What do you guys think of them?  And finally is $1100 a reasonable price for one?
Thanks,
Zach :grin:

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 12:35:19 AM »
Mine is marked Pedersoli and Traditions.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline davem270win

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2012, 07:13:03 AM »
Just bought one on Gunbroker - purchased in 2002 and probably never fired, still in the box.

$950 (minimum bid, I was the only bidder) - I think the traditions name kept people off.

Haven't shot it yet, need to work on the whole black powder thing.



Offline John Boy

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 01:21:07 AM »
If the rifle is stamped Pedersoli - it's a Pedersoli Sharps that was distributed by Traditions.  This is common in the US retail market.  My Pedersoli '74 is stamped EMF who is a firearms retailer in California.  Plus, the barrel is match grade ...
..................................................................................................
The threads are Square threads,  1.130" in diameter.
The threaded portion of the shank ends 0.625" in from the shoulder.
The breech end of the barrel extends past the threaded portion for 0.125" making  a total shank length 0.750"
Thread relief cut is 0.175" wide
Total length of the threads is 0.450"
Pitch is 10 threads per inch.
Thread width is 0.050"
Thread depth is 0.030"
 
Thread relief diameter is 1.012"
The Shoulder at the tulip is 1.240" in Diameter
............................................................................
The barrel specifications are the same as the Pedersoli Gibbs rifle which is THE replica percussion rifle that is renowned for accuracy and takes more International  match wins than any other percussion rifle
............................................................................
The regular Pedersoli 1874 Sharps models copy the original Sharps dimensions except we have made the side plates .050" thicker than the originals (which Shiloh copies more closely). Because Pedersoli knew some shooters would likely use smokeless powder with dangerous pressures, the decision to make the action more husky was done to safeguard against rupturing the breach block side plate grooves, which now are set deeper and stronger in the Pedersoli models.  Many years ago a gun was sacrificed at the proof house to see what pressure could cause problems.
At 72,500 psi chamber pressure we found .003" setback on the breach block but no chamber or barrel harm and the barrel passed proof test guages OK.  Such a pressure was obtained using a machined steel ctg. case in 45-70 size which had a small primer pocket., plus using 3x500 gr bullets, plus full case of bullseye powder.
.........................................................................................
The process of Broach Rifling which is a form of cut rifling.  Instead of a single point cutter being drawn through a prepared bore hole many many times, the bore hole is prepared to whatever standard the maker desires. Then a long broach having 14-16 sets of cutters on it is pulled slowly through the bore hole. (of course ample lubrication is always flowing).
 
Each set of cutters is slightly larger than the prior set and as the broach is pulled through, these cutters (made in the shape of the grooves desired) cut equally in all directions and gradually produce the grooves of the barrel.
This broach rifling is the process used by Pedersoli to rifle all the barrels, both for muzzle loading guns as well as for cartridge rifles.
 
At Pedersoli all barrels are drilled and reamed but then we add a third step which is to HONE the bore hole to bring it up to the match grade tolerance of the final bore diameter.  Also the honing produces a much finer finish in the bore hole and this fine finish becomes the tops of your lands.....mirror finish affect before we start the broaches on their job of cutting all the grooves.
 
Also, we use two of these 5-6 foot long broaches on each rifle barrel.
The first broach brings the rifling up to within .0020" of the final dimension.  The second broach having 15 cutters brings the rifling up the last .0020" to the final dimension.
This second broach has the last three cutters of the exact same size.   As cutter #13 makes the final tiny cut it is worn a bit.  Eventually cutter #13 will no longer bring the groove up to the final diameter so cutter #14 which has been doing no work, comes into play and handles that final cut.
#14 eventually wears a bit and cutter #15 which has done no work up to this time, comes into play and takes over making the final cut.
 
Experience tells us when to remove the broaches and have them resharpened back to normal dimensions. Barrels are visually inspected using a borescope which projects the picture onto a large TV monitor.  Air gaging is performed to verify the rifling is within match grade tolerances (plus/minus .0002").
....................................................................................
Double set trigger adjustments
(Sharps type rifles only)
REAR TRIGGER
1. Turn screw located behind the rear trigger, inwards until hammer will stay cocked without having the rear trigger “set” (clicked.)
2. If this screw is adjusted inwards too much, the hammer will not fall when the front trigger is pulled strongly.
3. If the screw is not set inwards enough, the hammer will fail to remain in full cock position.
4. The screw must be turned inwards until the hammer will remain in full cock without first setting the rear trigger.
5. When adjusting the screw, move screw in 1/4 to 1/2 turn increments and recheck results before making another adjustment.
FRONT TRIGGER
1. The front trigger will release the hammer even if the rear trigger has not been “set.”
2. With the rear trigger “not set” the front trigger pressure required to release the hammer will be much stronger than when the rear trigger has been “set.”
3. The front trigger adjustment screw located between the two triggers changes the amount of movement or travel which the front trigger must make before the hammer is released.
4. Turning this screw inwards will reduce the trigger travel and turning the screw outwards will increase the trigger travel required to release the cocked hammer.
5. If adjusted inward too much, it will not “hold” the setting against the rear trigger notch inside the action.
6. Proper adjustment should produce a very small front trigger movement with only a light pressure required to release the hammer.
...
Quote
Haven't shot it yet, need to work on the whole black powder thing.
Recommended readings ....
http://www.wahsatchdesperadoes.com/Intro_to_BPCR_Loading.pdf
http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html
 


Regards
John Boy

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 06:17:35 AM »
Can I get a source for the info above?
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Ranch13

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 08:08:19 AM »
Does Pedersoli make the Traditions sharps 1874 rifles in .45-70?  What do you guys think of them?  And finally is $1100 a reasonable price for one?
Thanks,
Zach :grin:
Most likely it was made by Pedersoli. Depending on the model 1100 might be a good buy, and it may be a good bit to high.
In the 1920's "sheeple" was a term coined by the National Socialist Party in Germany to describe people that would not vote for Hitler. In the 1930's they held Hitler as the only one that would bring pride back to Germany and bring the budget and economy back.....

Offline John Boy

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 10:06:45 AM »
Quote
Can I get a source for the info above?
No ... What do you think, I made it all up?  If you believe the data to be incorrect, just disregard it - OK?
And if you cut and paste it on other forums, be sure to include:
Source: John Boy post on Graybeard Outdoors
Regards
John Boy

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 11:17:10 AM »
Just asking I need a source.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Scibaer

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2012, 11:43:26 AM »
No ... What do you think, I made it all up? ... ;D
i have not laughed so hard in a long long time...Bwwahhhaa hahaahahhaa
 good on you john boy ! now that was funny !!

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2012, 12:26:37 PM »
I believe the data to be correct.  I'd just like a source on the pressure testing part.  Clearly it is a cut and paste.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Scibaer

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2012, 12:47:23 PM »
hey swampman, its no reflection on you at all... its just what johnboy struck me funny.. i laughed so hard...
i'm sure you were sincere and really did want the data for your own usage...
but you admit, that was pretty funny  ;)

Offline John Boy

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2012, 12:50:06 PM »
Swampman ... Well, I'll be darned!  Sure didn't take you long to post my communicated data facts word for word with quotation marks to boot and trying to come across as being knowledgeable respective to Pedersoli manufacturing processes. Specifically, it only took you a couple of minutes more that an hour!  Plus no identification of the source.  Candidly, I am not happy with your actions because it's folks like you that do this trying to be a very knowledge BPCR person but in reality, don't know spit!  And your a classic example
Interesting Info post on 24 Hour Campfire

If you want to untwist the box your in with tex_n_cal, it's one of many received Pedersoli data communications.  Be interesting to see how you respond to the reference request, such as 'I don't have a clue but I'll try to find out from the Black Powder Forum Moderator on Graybeard Outdoors, John Boy, who is knowledgeable of the Pedersoli processes in Italy'!
Regards
John Boy

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2012, 12:59:09 PM »
I only posted it as interesting info. I wasn't trying to come across as anything. That's why I put quotation marks.  I have no need to untwist any box with anyone.  Although I cannot underestand why it would bother you, I'm sorry it did.  That's for giving me the source of the info.  I'm my writings I have to give sources.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline pastorp

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2012, 06:33:53 PM »
Swampy,

Don't remember you posting a source for all the drivel you post about Remington's.

Regards,
Byron

Christian by choice, American by the grace of God.

NRA LIFE

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2012, 10:59:41 PM »
I'm the source of those facts.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline bubba

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2012, 10:53:27 PM »
I am shocked swampy owns anything that says traditions.  Arent they junk barrels made is Spain?
”A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.”

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Offline bubba

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2012, 10:55:40 PM »
actually you are the source of those opinions
”A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.”

Molon Labe

Remember... Four boxes keep us free: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2012, 08:04:00 AM »
If I say anything you can take it to the bank....period.  My opinions are the facts.
 
 
Thankfully, Traditions doesn't make the Traditions Sharps.  It's made in Italy and the barrels are made in Germany.  Traditions just crudely handstamps their mark over the Pedersoli markings.  These aren't pipe bombs like their other products.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline pastorp

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2012, 12:09:48 PM »
Bubba,

I think you got it right...  ;).

Regards,
Byron

Christian by choice, American by the grace of God.

NRA LIFE

Offline John Boy

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2012, 07:39:46 AM »
Quote
If I say anything you can take it to the bank....period.
Traditions doesn't make the Traditions Sharps.  It's made in Italy and the barrels are made in Germany.
Are you sure Pedersoli barrels are made in Germany?
 My documentation says that they make their barrels in house from purchased blanks ...

Quote
Pedersoli barrel blanks are machined from a chrome moly alloy having the metalurgical composition called 30Cr Mo4  Uni 7845 which is a patented alloy variation developed by Mauser in the 1930s... At Pedersoli all barrels are drilled and reamed but then we add a third step which is to HONE the bore hole to bring it up to the match grade tolerance of the final bore diameter ...
Regards
John Boy

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2012, 01:39:09 PM »
Yep, your research is wrong.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline bubba.50

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2012, 02:15:53 PM »
be interestin' to see some documentation other than "word of swampman" that they're made in germany.
fetch the hammer maggie-they's a bee on the baby's head!

Offline John Boy

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2012, 04:15:12 PM »
Quote
Yep, your research is wrong.
Bubba, I completely agree with your request.

The words that I posted, in quotation, is a direct quote from a responsible Pedersoli employee ... no research was needed on my part.

So, Swampman, believe a direct quote from a responsible source of the German manufacturer of Pedersoli barrels is also necessary to determine if this Pedersoli employee lied to me

And also would like to read verification from your German source that the details I posted how the barrels are bored is EXACTLY the same or different 
Regards
John Boy

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2012, 11:47:02 PM »
No need for all that.  My word is sufficent.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline bubba.50

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2012, 03:00:41 AM »
so, if i or anyone else pull an opinion outta thin air & post it here with absolutely no proof or documentation of it's validity it's a fact ??? ? heck, i must be smarter than i thought 'cause i got lots of opinions ;D .
 
now, let's see if i have this right. john boy needs page upon page of documentation direct from the manufacturer for what he says & swampy still don't believe him. but swampy just hasta say "it is so 'cause i say it's so" :o  and we're 'sposed to take it to the bank? have a good'en friends & neighbors while i go scratch my head over this one, bubba.
fetch the hammer maggie-they's a bee on the baby's head!

Offline Swampman

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2012, 01:09:26 PM »
I never said I didn't believe him.  I just asked for a source so I could give it to someone who didn't belive the test data was correct based on a pressure calculation.  Personally I couldn't care less one way or another.  Italian arms are good quality and actually safe to shoot.  More than we can say about anything made in Spain.
 
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline John Boy

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Re: Traditions "Sharps"
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2012, 07:14:28 AM »
Swampman Quotes:

Quote
If I say anything you can take it to the bank....period.
Traditions doesn't make the Traditions Sharps.  It's made in Italy and the barrels are made in Germany.
Quote
I'm the source of those facts.
Quote
If I say anything you can take it to the bank....period.  My opinions are the facts.
 
Quote
Yep, your research is wrong.
Quote
No need for all that.  My word is sufficent.

Swampman, I'm going to leave you with information that I believe conclusively contradicts the multiple statements and rebuttals that you have posted on this tread respective to country made in and manufacture of Pedersoli barrels.  This will show other folks viewing the thread that you are nothing but hot air, post statements that are totally incorrect but try to come across that you are a 'wealth of information'.  Then I'm locking the thread because I don't want you to portend anymore on it trying to impress folks with your 'knowledge' which is bona fide 'lack of' knowledge with repetitive rebuttals stating that you know what your talking about, plus failing to provide supporting details.

This video was passed on to me that I did not know Pierangelo Pedersoli, half owner of Davide Pedersoli & Co made and narrated
Barrel Making at the Pedersoli Factory
Regards
John Boy