416 breech thrust?

[LAB55]

I sent my 38-55 barrel to Classic Barrel Works and it came home as a 416 Taylor.
What is the breech thrust when I shoot a 350 grain bullet moving @ 2050 fps?
I'm using a full case of IMR 4831 powder.

[quickdtoo]

QL says that load using the 350gr Speer generates ~33kpsi, ball park breech thrust is 6821lbs, but should produce 2203fps in the 28" barrel, 2082fps in a 22" barrel.


Tim

[Jason F]

What is the advantage of this round compared to a 45-70 ,other than being different like the rest of us in our choices

[quickdtoo]

Wiki pretty much nails the answer to that question, AG lists full pressure loads as  400gr @ 2300fps. Rigby performance with a lot less expensive brass.

BTW, one of the loads I have made up for the 405 Win is the 350gr Speer sized to .412" over a case full of  AA2520, QL predicts 2350fps at 53kpsi in my 24" barrel which is well under the breech thrust of a 60kpsi 30-06 load...same size case head. 

Tim
 

The cartridge was created to replace the magnum length .416 Rigby which at that time was nearly obsolete, with a cartridge that would fit into a standard length bolt-action rifle. The shorter action rifles are not only easier to carry in heavy cover, but also make it more convenient to care more ammunition.[4] The advantages to cartridges in .416 inch bullet diameter are that they generally present the shooter with less recoil and flatter trajectory than the larger .458 caliber dangerous game rifles (like the .458 Winchester Magnum). They also have more striking power and penetration than medium bores like the .375 H&H Magnum. The Taylor cartridge is simply a necked down .458 Winchester Magnum with no changes. They have the same shoulder height and angle as the .264 Winchester Magnum. As of January 2011 the 416 Taylor is now a SAAMI standardized cartridge, [5] and is offered as a standard production item by A-Square.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.416_Taylor

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_en___US445&q=416+taylor

[quickdtoo]

Here's A-Square's ballistic page.

Tim

http://a-squareco.com/Ballistics_Chart.html

[LAB55]

Jason, your right, I just wanted something different.
Thanks Tim, for all the information.
I'm going to try a faster burning powder.
I feel the frame and barrel can handle it.

[quickdtoo]

A better choice would be H4895, 66gr should get you 2300fps at just 42.8kpsi and 8846lbs thrust, that load is at 94.2% load density and 99.61% burned in the 28" barrel, COL of 3.340" based on 92gr water case capacity.

Tim

[bikerbeans]

The nominal load for this cartridge is a 400 grain projectile @ 2,350 FPS.  Is this chambering within the limits of the Handi platform with factory ammo?
 
BB

[quickdtoo]

I don't think so, 400gr at 2350fps produces around 11500-12000 lbs breech thrust in a 24" barrel, a little less in a 28" barrel. I couldn't find the SAAMI MAP for it, but it runs with the 416 Rem which is 65kpsi which would provide over 13000lbs breech thrust based on the external case head diameter.

Tim

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/416%20Taylor%20Magnum.pdf

[bikerbeans]

I don't think so, 400gr at 2350fps produces around 11500-12000 lbs breech thrust in a 24" barrel, a little less in a 28" barrel. I couldn't find the SAAMI MAP for it, but it runs with the 416 Rem which is 65kpsi which would provide over 13000lbs breech thrust based on the external case head diameter.

Tim

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/416%20Taylor%20Magnum.pdf

Not to be a fly in the ointment here but based upon previous threads and my own rather biased opionons,  to me this appears to be a questionable chambering for a Handi because there is factory ammo available that the could be bought an chambered by someone without the skill set and knowledge of the original owner.   Of course I am one to talk considering some of the stuff I have locked away in the Possum Lodge.    
 
BB

[quickdtoo]

I don't think even it would produce a catastrophic failure, the original owner of the 300WSM Handi shot 100 rounds of factory ammo thru it resulting in a loose barrel(underlug setback) no apparent damage to the frame since other fitted barrels locked up fine, top loads for the 300WSM run 63.5kpsi according to Hodgdon, its bigger case head of .555" produces ~15000lbs breech thrust,(the big reason why custom barrel makers no longer chamber Encore barrels for short mags) so the 416 Taylor at 12000lbs should pose no danger. Anyone that can afford $100-$120 a box for ammo can likely afford a better more expensive rifle tho, so the Handi prolly won't be too much of a concern. 

Tim

http://a-squareco.com/Ammunition_Pricing.html

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&newcategorydimensionid=9897

[bajabill]

I think there are 2 separate forces involved, the breech thrust (acting to the aft, or toward the shooter) is typically what can fail the bolt lugs in a bolt action rifle.  In a brake action rifle, this force is on the flat face of the receiver.  The forward thrust on the barrel is the critical load for the brake action and will cause it to loosen.  Then the over pressure can split a thin barrel if the chamber has been enlarged too much.
 
I believe the aft thrust and the forward thrust acting ON THE GUN, are not equal.  Some of the forward thrust acts on the bullet, some but not all of this is then transferred to the barrel via friction and makes up the total forward load on the gun.
 
This is why I think you can get by with more pressure on a straight or slightly necked case.  Remember the tennis ball shooter made out of a tennis ball tube, not much structural integrity between the tube and the end cap, but it held for a while if you place it flat on the ground.