Author Topic: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta  (Read 1711 times)

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Offline Cannoneer

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Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« on: May 31, 2012, 08:50:49 PM »
I've heard of wooden mortars being used in a pinch before, but this is the first time I've read about mortars fashioned out of rock, or more precisely, carved in natural rock formations. These "stone mortars" were cut into the rock by the Knight Hospitallers of St. John (Maltese Knights), and discovered by Napoleon's troops when the French invaded Malta in 1798.

http://napoleonic-literature.com/Book_20/Lawson-Manuscript.htm#4



"ROCK MORTARS. 23"
"THESE are excavations resembling the interior of mortars, formed out of solid rock, of which there are several in the Island of Malta, executed upon a large scale for the defence of harbours, &c.
    Having heard much of this species of Artillery, it excited a curiosity (in our return from Egypt) to experiment two of the most perfect, which are situated in St. Julian’s and St. George’s Bays. The drawing (Plate VIII.) represents a section of one as loaded and fired on the 24th February, 1802.
    1st. At St. Julian’s—140 pounds of powder was enclosed in a sort of cask prepared to fit the chamber of the mortar, and being lodged there, a large cane tube filled with quickmatch, was applied to a groove cut along the upper surface of the bore to receive it, and a bottom of wood covered the chamber. The stones were then piled, by four men, within the mortar as they were brought to it in baskets containing about 120 lbs. each: a dozen stones weighing from 120 to 80 lbs. each were first put in, then fifty baskets of other stones from 60 to 30 lbs., then fifty more of 20 to 5 lbs. each, amounting in the whole to upwards of 10 tons. This operation being completed, a piece of portfire was fixed to the end of the tube at the mouth, which communicated through a hole in the cask to the powder. In this manner it was fired as is usual in proving ordnance, and ranged about 700 yards.
    2nd. The same mortar was loaded with 180 pounds of powder, and about 10 tons of stones; they spread considerably more than the first time, but did not range quite so far. The explosion this time cracked the mortar in a direction nearly vertical, leaving a fissure in the rock about one-twelfth of an inch wide, ten feet in the rear and four feet in front.
    3rd. The other mortar of similar dimensions was fired with a charge rather larger than the first of these, but the effect was not quite so considerable: from whence it is concluded that the first proportion should not be exceeded, especially if after repeated. The stones used in these experiments were chiefly fragments of the rock, which having been exposed to the air were become something harder, and did not suffer so much as might be expected from such violent explosions, which in some degree resembled the tremendous discharge of a volcano."
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 12:31:35 AM »
This gives a whole new meaning to "land" mine.
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline steelcharge

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 01:45:11 AM »
That's quite amazing and really cool, I like all kinds of improvised guns a lot and I've seen quite many strange improvised guns but this is something really new.

The chinese also had some breechloading guns carved from large stones. They were placed next to town gates and at some points of the Great Wall.

Link to another forum with a few pictures of Chinese stone cannons:
http://www.greatwallforum.com/forum/xiaohekou/1597-gate-cannon.html

Offline Mike Scott

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 04:08:55 AM »
I have been wondering how I could afford a BIG gun.  Since I already own a shovel and a place to dig I guess I already have one.  That is pretty amazing!

Offline The Jeff

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 09:13:38 AM »
Wow, that's a really interesting find, Cannoneer!


I have been wondering how I could afford a BIG gun.  Since I already own a shovel and a place to dig I guess I already have one.  That is pretty amazing!
And if you have 400,000 pounds of gun cotton, you could launch yourself to the moon!

Offline Him

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 09:31:15 AM »
Wow, that's a really interesting find, Cannoneer!


I have been wondering how I could afford a BIG gun.  Since I already own a shovel and a place to dig I guess I already have one.  That is pretty amazing!
And if you have 400,000 pounds of gun cotton, you could launch yourself to the moon!


If you didn't mind being squashed into jelly by the acceleration.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 12:45:36 PM »
   That's a great find, Cannoneer; thanks for posting.

       Last month I bought a new book on the fortifications of “The Rock”, Gibraltar.  Near the end was a small photo with an interesting caption.  I thought I would share this similar stone mortar, also in the area of the Mediterranian Sea.

    “ Healy's Mortar is effectively a round cylindrical hole cut deep (at approx 45 degree angle) into some rock. The intention was to fill the bottom up with gunpowder (over 20kgs), then place a wooden cover of this, and then add around 1,500 rocks weighing approx 0.5 kilos each. A slow 5 minute fuse would then be lit whilst everyone nearby hid. The idea then was that the mortar would fire, and all of the rocks would hit Spanish lines.”  This is from Wikipedia.


  This thing is really big, much larger than it looks here.



 

     “This was a stone mortar or fougasse, carved out of solid rock in the shape of a parabolic conoid.  It was test fired in 1771 with 13 cwt of broken paving stones which mainly fell in the area outside the South Front.  It could have been a useful weapon in the event of a landing of marines in this area, but the occasion never arose.”  This is from The Osprey book titled:  The Fortifications of Gibraltar 1068 - 1945 by Darren Fa and Clive Finlayson, illustrated by Adam Hook.

      These single direction, statically emplaced weapons were used from ancient times to last week in Afganistan.  The enemy’s use of IEDs is a modern adaptation of the old fougasse.  In Vietnam, a 55 gallon drum of jellied gasoline with a quarter pound TNT expeller charge was extremely effective in protecting natural avenues of approach during firebase FPF (final protective fires).

Tracy and Mike




 

Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 10:21:13 PM »
http://www.ghajnsielem.com/places/fougasse.html



For the curious minded that might be thinking these devices evidently didn't do much to deter Napoleon's troops, supposedly they were never used against the French fleet.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Victor3

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2012, 11:38:27 PM »
 What's the wall thickness over the chamber on one of those?  ;D
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2012, 05:52:17 AM »
At least you never have to worry about metal fatigue with a 'fougasse'.
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2012, 08:42:08 AM »
What's the wall thickness over the chamber on one of those?

Pretty thick, but it turns out that thickness beyond one bore diameter adds less and less to the overall strength and more and more to the overall weight.  You'll note that in paragraph the 2nd in the original post, the second firing cracked the wall even with all the material surrounding it.  The stress is greatest at the interior wall and decreases as you move outward.
GG
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2012, 08:53:21 PM »
At least you never have to worry about metal fatigue with a 'fougasse'.

 Yeah, but what about operator fatigue if the fuse fizzles and someone has to dig out 10 tons of rocks?  :o
 
 I'd be sure to use some kind of triple-redundant ingnition system and keep a tarp handy in case it started raining.  :)
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Victor3

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2012, 08:59:21 PM »
What's the wall thickness over the chamber on one of those?

Pretty thick, but it turns out that thickness beyond one bore diameter adds less and less to the overall strength and more and more to the overall weight.  You'll note that in paragraph the 2nd in the original post, the second firing cracked the wall even with all the material surrounding it.  The stress is greatest at the interior wall and decreases as you move outward.

 I suspect that the bbl material wasn't seamless.  ;)
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Double D

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2012, 04:42:29 AM »
What's the wall thickness over the chamber on one of those?

Pretty thick, but it turns out that thickness beyond one bore diameter adds less and less to the overall strength and more and more to the overall weight.  You'll note that in paragraph the 2nd in the original post, the second firing cracked the wall even with all the material surrounding it.  The stress is greatest at the interior wall and decreases as you move outward.

 I suspect that the bbl material wasn't seamless.  ;)

I warned you guys about this.   ;D

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2012, 07:50:03 AM »
That's quite amazing and really cool, I like all kinds of improvised guns a lot and I've seen quite many strange improvised guns but this is something really new.

The chinese also had some breechloading guns carved from large stones. They were placed next to town gates and at some points of the Great Wall.

Link to another forum with a few pictures of Chinese stone cannons:
http://www.greatwallforum.com/forum/xiaohekou/1597-gate-cannon.html

Steelcharge,
Thanks for the link to the Chinese stone cannons, they're new to me too. I'll tell you something though, with the 'fougasse', I think that I would light it, and feel relatively safe staying somewhere in the near vicinity (obviously opposite the 45° angle), but with those Chinese rock tubes, I'd definitely need to be behind some kind of barrier that was more than capable of withstanding any rock fragments blown it's way.

RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline brokenpole

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2012, 10:38:59 AM »
I am just waiting for Mike and Tracy to build one that shoots big ole water bottles. Ed over at HMR will have a golf ball size one right after the 4th of July.  ;D

Offline Double D

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2012, 02:57:10 AM »
I am just waiting for Mike and Tracy to build one that shoots big ole water bottles. Ed over at HMR will have a golf ball size one right after the 4th of July.  ;D

Thanks but I will wait see what Dom and Mike at Brooks does with it before I buy. ;D


Offline Ex 49'er

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2012, 04:27:59 AM »
I hope they factored in some windage!   ::)
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline Double D

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2012, 04:40:16 AM »
Been a while since we have had a thread this informative and humorous  all in one!

Offline buzz36

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Re: Seacoast defence mortars carved in natural rock on Malta
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2012, 03:30:19 AM »
care ful that last pic its half loaded and would say real interesting and interesting idea