Author Topic: Another case of big / bad unions  (Read 574 times)

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Offline stimpylu32

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Another case of big / bad unions
« on: June 22, 2012, 04:57:34 PM »
NORTH LAS VEGAS, Nev. (AP) — There are no signs of rioters, wind-damaged homes or flooding. The brand new City Hall features gleaming marble floors and the public recreation centers offer Zumba, karate and Pilates classes.
Despite all of its suburban trimmings, North Las Vegas is officially a disaster area.
After five years of declining property taxes, massive layoffs and questionable spending, leaders of the blue-collar, family-oriented city outside Las Vegas declared a state of emergency, invoking a rarely used state law crafted for unforeseen disasters.
No matter that the statute, which allows municipalities to suspend union contracts and avoid paying scheduled salary increases, doesn't actually include fiscal emergencies among the list of potential disasters.
"It says, in case of 'emergency such as.' You can't list how many different types of emergencies there are in the world," City Council member Wade Wagner said of the move, which will save the city $9 million.
There are many cities across the nation grappling with declining property values and growing expenses like North Las Vegas, but few, if any, have declared financial emergency.
Stockton, Calif., and Los Angeles explored similar emergency declarations and were met with legal challenges. In Buffalo, N.Y., court officials upheld a wage freeze in 2006 that allowed the city to address its four-year $127 million deficit and avoid financial disaster.
North Las Vegas is among Nevada's hardest-hit cities, at a time when the state is dealing with the nation's highest unemployment rate and an unrelenting tide of foreclosures and bankruptcies. Every few months, the state threatens to take over the city.
Even so, the financial disaster declaration is unprecedented in Nevada, raising questions about whether North Las Vegas is overreaching at the expense of its employees and reputation.
"It makes it sound like our buildings are all on fire and they don't have water to put it out or something," said Jennifer Meyers, who moved to the city before the housing collapse so her kids could play in the street without worrying about crime.
"It doesn't sound like a place you would want to move to," she said.
Union workers, long among the highest compensated government employees in southern Nevada, claim the city won't be able to defend the emergency designation in court. The police union filed a lawsuit Friday claiming the city was misusing the law.
"Everybody in the city is basically using all their time and all their effort to try to break the unions," said Sgt. Leonard Cardinale, president of the North Las Vegas Police Supervisors Association.
Public perception turned against the city's public safety workers after some union leaders put up billboards last year that read: "Warning: Due to recent police layoffs, we can no longer guarantee your safety!"
It isn't hard to make the case that North Las Vegas, Nevada's fourth-largest city, is in trouble.
As its population more than doubled to 223,394 in 2010 from 115,488 in 2000, the city doubled its staff, built a new park each year and, in 2009, started construction on a sparkling $130 million City Hall.
For nearly two years, the city, where residents have long paid the highest tax rate in southern Nevada, has teetered on the edge of insolvency.
One in every 195 homes is in foreclosure, the state's highest rate. Once the nation's fastest growing city, it lost more than 3,000 businesses in three years after the recession hit in 2007. Its total revenue has plunged from $817 million in 2009 to $298 million this year.
Hundreds of municipal workers have received pink slips and still the city struggled to close a $30 million budget gap. As a final body blow, Fitch Ratings downgraded the city's bond rating last month to a "BBB" with a negative watch.
By 2013, the city will have shed more than 800 employees since the recession began.
City officials concede they are far from the urban disasters brought on by Hurricane Katrina or the Los Angeles riots, but argue all the same that North Las Vegas' fiscal crisis shouldn't be downplayed.
Without the emergency declaration, the city claims it would have to lay off 217 public safety workers to afford the salary increases required under its police and fire union contracts. Libraries would close and recreation centers would no longer offer swimming and Spanish classes.
"We are in a fiscal emergency," Wagner said. "North Las Vegas is ground zero basically for foreclosures in the nation. There are only a handful of places that have been hit as hard as North Las Vegas.
"So because our property taxes have declined so much, we really had to invoke this," Wagner said.
Since then, residents have urged City Hall to keep its libraries and recreation centers and sacrifice public safety, which accounts for 66 percent of the city's budget. In all, the city expects to go from 1,000 public safety employees in 2011 to 721 in 2013. The City Council voted Wednesday night to turn its jail services over to the city of Las Vegas in a move expected to save $16 million annually.
Residents like Bob Borgersen are fed up with the unions and the council for not being able to compromise as the city continues to struggle. He blamed the council for not saving when its property tax income was flush.
"It's bad. The property values have gone down to nothing," he said. "They didn't think ahead, unfortunately."
 
Just blame the Police & Fire Fighters unoin , even though they were not the ones that spent all the money , did they realy need a 130 million dollar City Hall ? And wern't the same ones that spent all that money , the same ones that signed the contracts for those Police and Fire Fighters ?
 
I get real tired of hearing about how they piss away money and its someone else's fault . Keep the Safety Services and can the City Counsel !  >:(
Deceased June 17, 2015


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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2012, 08:50:09 PM »
Now before someone gets a rope to string me up , PLEASE give me a chance to express my point of view !
 
1 - You get a chance to go to work for a city , as pay for your job you will get X dollars / hr and Z dollars / hr per year as a raise , now after 2 years the city says that they can't afford to pay you what you agreed to because City Council has spent the money for New / Shiny offices & Parking Lots for themselves .

2 - You get a job at a big factory run by a International company , for doing your job , you will get X dollars / hr and Z dollars / hr in raises over the next 5 years , however after a year you are told that you will not get the raise that was agreed to because the Board of Directors voted themselves a 30% pay raise and there is no money left .
 
Now if the people that run these Cities and Companies were Honest , Respectable & Trustworthy , would there be UNIONS ? I really doubt it , but in the real world - THEIR NOT .
 
Richard Kohli - IBEW Local 32
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Offline briarpatch

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 02:27:25 AM »
In the private sector, unions have checks and balances as well as competition. In the "government" sector they become a scourge. The taxpayer is held accountable for the good and bad forever.
Because they cant be fired without an impossible load of paper or effort, even for the worst offenses, police become rouges, workers dont work, more workers are added to pad payroll,
ETC.
Get the union out of government and they will not have a problem. If it is taxpayer funded stay out of it.

Offline Buckskin

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 10:52:31 AM »
If they don't have the money, they don't have the money.... What do you want the city to do, just keep paying what they don't have???
 
There will be many to follow suit sooner or later.  Illinois is so far in debt right now and they keep writing checks... Wisconsin was headed that direction and now have a silver lining... Wisconsin also is in the best shape in the union as far as funding retirement benefits for state workers. 
 
Nobody wants to see people loose their jobs, but need to keep solvent or we will become Europe...
Buckskin

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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 11:51:56 AM »
In the private sector, unions have checks and balances as well as competition. In the "government" sector they become a scourge. The taxpayer is held accountable for the good and bad forever.
Because they cant be fired without an impossible load of paper or effort, even for the worst offenses, police become rouges, workers dont work, more workers are added to pad payroll,
ETC.
Get the union out of government and they will not have a problem. If it is taxpayer funded stay out of it.

I'm Union and I agree , something needs to be done to allow for a way to cut the dead weight , When I'm running jobs and someone needs to go its simple = YOUR FIRED !
 
The IBEW even has a set standard that states if a person is fired twice in 2 years for just cause their out for good . Now the problem , so many of the ones in charge use the GOOD OL BOY system , that instead of firing them , they just lay them off and dump the problem on someone else .
 
As for the City needing to cut the fat , Start with the ones sitting in the office's and keep the ones that are there to PROTECT & SERVE !!!!! Why does an office geek need to make two to three times as much as the guy that puts his life on the line everyday ?
 
 Wait , I know , because he took the easy way out and went to collage to drink beer and screw around while the rest of us were doing an Hounest days work .
 
stimpy   
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Offline clum sum

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 01:06:50 PM »
Hoo yaa go Stimpylu 32 to many people don't understand unions, some of them don't understand toilet paper. As I said the only reason for unions is poor managment. People that don't like to deal with union members , should not do business with a lawer who is a member of the Bar or Doctors who are members of the AMA two of the bigest unions there is. Not counting the Democrat and Republican  partys. Why is it that politicians party and Doc and Lawers practice. Most people dont,t care to learn what unions have done for them, WE have job protiction, health insurence,a liveable wage, safety on the job and a lot more. People that thank We got all of this from the politicians, lawyers or just a good boss are ignorant of all the sacrifices made by members of Unions for the good of all. And No we all can't be the indipendent mountain man, some of us have to stay and work in the factorys, farms and mines so the idipendents can be free.
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2012, 01:59:21 AM »
In the private sector, unions have checks and balances as well as competition. In the "government" sector they become a scourge. The taxpayer is held accountable for the good and bad forever.
Because they cant be fired without an impossible load of paper or effort, even for the worst offenses, police become rouges, workers dont work, more workers are added to pad payroll,
ETC.
Get the union out of government and they will not have a problem. If it is taxpayer funded stay out of it.

I'm Union and I agree , something needs to be done to allow for a way to cut the dead weight , When I'm running jobs and someone needs to go its simple = YOUR FIRED !
 
The IBEW even has a set standard that states if a person is fired twice in 2 years for just cause their out for good . Now the problem , so many of the ones in charge use the GOOD OL BOY system , that instead of firing them , they just lay them off and dump the problem on someone else .
 
As for the City needing to cut the fat , Start with the ones sitting in the office's and keep the ones that are there to PROTECT & SERVE !!!!! Why does an office geek need to make two to three times as much as the guy that puts his life on the line everyday ?
 
 Wait , I know , because he took the easy way out and went to collage to drink beer and screw around while the rest of us were doing an Hounest days work .
 
stimpy   

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Offline Buckskin

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2012, 02:51:22 AM »
Well I will agree with Stimpy that they should be cutting office personnel too. Government if full of waste from top to bottom, so no reason to just chop the bottom.  Make government lean and mean instead of fat and lazy. Wouldn't that save our entire economy? If we ran government like a business instead of open ended money pit we wouldn't be in this mess.
 
I see the class warfare tactic is alive and well... The reason that the college grads make 2-3 times what the guys making an honest living make is simple supply and demand.  There are many more people who can swing a hammer than can figure out quantum mechanics, much less know how to spell and use correct punctuation...
 
Everyone in a union knows about the problems with them, but nothing has been done about it for generations and now we see the results...
Buckskin

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Offline magooch

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2012, 04:16:40 AM »
The primary thing wrong with unions is that Dumycrats think unions are an extention of the Dumycrat Party and sooner, or later Dumycrats gain control of the union and then the treasury gets used to elect more Dumycrats.  And eventually we get a communist in the White House.
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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2012, 05:50:00 AM »
The primary thing wrong with unions is that Dumycrats think unions are an extention of the Dumycrat Party and sooner, or later Dumycrats gain control of the union and then the treasury gets used to elect more Dumycrats.  And eventually we get a communist in the White House.

And the Republican party uses Fat Cat Bankers and off shore Money Guys to fund their campain's , neither party can claim to be graft free here , what's the difference between a Union writing a big check to a party or a International Corporation writing it , both are doing what they feel is in their own best intrest , not what might be in the best intrest of the American people . Those days are long gone !
 
stimpy
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Offline briarpatch

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 01:59:07 PM »
Stimpy you are right with that but can you tell us why the union backed nafta and backed the pacific rim trade agreement when they knew it would kill jobs and send many overseas. The union has helped export jobs quicker that any other organization.


Offline nomosendero

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Re: Another case of big / bad unions
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 03:22:46 PM »
The primary thing wrong with unions is that Dumycrats think unions are an extention of the Dumycrat Party and sooner, or later Dumycrats gain control of the union and then the treasury gets used to elect more Dumycrats.  And eventually we get a communist in the White House.

And the Republican party uses Fat Cat Bankers and off shore Money Guys to fund their campain's , neither party can claim to be graft free here , what's the difference between a Union writing a big check to a party or a International Corporation writing it , both are doing what they feel is in their own best intrest , not what might be in the best intrest of the American people . Those days are long gone !
 
stimpy

Fat Cat Bankers, well that"s an outdated way of looking at it. Obummer had more Wall Street Bankers voting for him than anyone in recent history. This ole Democrap working man party crap is obsolete period! Watch who has the most of these $30,000 a plate fund raising meals, it's the Dems. Also that is the primary home of 'crony' Capitalism, as in GE< GM & all the failed "green" Obummer specials. Not that the Rep. don't have their "cronies", they certainly do.
I do agree though that all the Unions and the International Corporations aren't looking out for the regular guy.
But, I don't want any of these jerks looking out for me, I just want to be able to operate.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.