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Author Topic: Goex vs Schuetzen  (Read 1213 times)

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Offline IronBrigade

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Goex vs Schuetzen
« on: June 10, 2012, 01:11:09 PM »
I went to the range today with my Pedersoli Jaeger flintlock, It took seven shots to use up the rest of my 3F goex powder, so I opened up a new can of Schuetzen powder which I tried for the first time. My buddy Linc likes this Powder so I figured I would give it a try. Goex is the only Black powder I've ever used up until now. Here are the results at 40 yards:







 the first 7 shots using Goex I circled with a black marker. The next 3 shots I used schuetzen BP and I didn't circle them. (1 3/4" group ) I was Impressed with the Schuetzen powder. I like Goex Powder, I just think I may have had a bad can or something because I couldn't get good shot groups for the last month using it. Looks like more testing with this powder is in order.
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Offline keith44

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2012, 02:21:55 PM »
Schuetzen is a high quality powder, so is Swiss.  Goex is a good powder, where Elephant, and Kik are ok budget powders.  Now having said that, batches of each brand will be better or worse than batches from the other brands, with no correlation available to the consumer (without privately testing a sample can from each batch).  Also if you live in an area with high humidity BP will degrade over time.  Then there is the issue of the "fines" settling to the bottom of the can and causing pressure differences compared to the first shots from that can.
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2012, 03:05:18 PM »
Something you may want to ponder. Schuetzen and Swiss powders are smaller than Goex, ie 2f Schuetzne/Swiss is closer to 3f Goex, and 3f Schuetzen is a bit finer than 3f goex, theres where the difference comes in , you gun may have been telling you it wanted more powder.
 The new lots of KIK are currently shooting circles around all the other available powders in cartridge guns.
Goex has supposedly got their new plant up and running after the other one blewup a year ago. So we may start seeing some of the Hogdon made powder shortly, and we'll see if they changed the recipes.
 
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Offline IronBrigade

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 09:17:31 AM »
I used 80 grains of 3F for each powder, and the same patches and lube. I may have just been lucky on those last 3 shots. The next time at the range I will open a new can of goex 3F and try 5 shots with each powder. I will keep ya posted on the results. ;)
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 09:31:12 AM »
If this next can of goex 3f doesn't shoot as well as the Schuetzen you might try going up 5 grs.
I like Schuetzen alot more than the Swiss powder, it'll shoot just as well and is about half the price, but the KIK has them all beat.
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Offline Ron T.

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 09:56:18 AM »
My understanding is that in the past, Goex hasn't been "refined" as much as it could have been thus leaving both larger and smaller granulations of black powder in the can under a single "label" such as "FFFg" or "FFg" when the powder contained therein was a mixture of larger and smaller granules of powder.

Of course, in the BOTTOM of the powder can, it left a collection of especially finer (smaller) powder granules of Goex... a larger percentage of finer Goex powder than would have been found high up in the can as the can was moved around and the finer powder sifted down in the powder can.

Of course, since you used the very LAST of the powder in the can, it was very likely much finer than regular FFFg Goex which may have accounted for the wide range of hits on the target.

It is my understanding that Hodgdon will refine the Goex black powder they make to a much higher degree than it was formally refined thus causing the new Goex to be more consistent and, thus, more accurate.

However, in the meantime, it appears the Schuetzen black powder is extemely accurate in your rifle.  If it were me, I'd stay with the Schuetzen Black Powder... and maybe try another can of Goex after Hodgdon gets the new plant in Alabama or Georgia or where ever the new plant is being built to see if Hodgdon has improve Goex any further.   :)


Meanwhile... make GOOD smoke...   ;D


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 04:02:49 PM »
All blackpowder has fines in it. It's the nature of the beast with the seives they use to size sort it.
Goex's plant is still right there in Doyline Louisiana.
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Offline streak

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 05:01:12 PM »
Ranch13,
Not to get off topic here,but I know you use KIK in black powder cartridge reloads, have you had any experience in using KIK in muzzleloader loads??
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 05:08:56 PM »
No I have not, but some of the guys I shoot with say it is working very well with their muzzleloaders. I only wish we had a powder burning as clean as the KIK when I was running around the country shooting muzzleloaders.
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Offline Nobade

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2012, 01:32:59 AM »
KIK works fine in muzzleloaders. I use FFFg in my 32 and 45 roundball guns, and FFg in my 50. It also works quite well in the bullet firing rifles, but you would expect that since they're basically caseless versions of cartridge guns.

I haven't tried it in my 12 bore roundball rifle or in the shotguns, I have been using Diamondback in those since it's cheaper and they use a lot of powder.

Other than being a bit dusty, I'd say the new KIK is 98% of what Swiss is at 1/2 the price. I get the same accuracy, ease of cleanup, low fouling, etc with KIK as I do with Swiss. It is worlds better than any Goex I have ever tried. Cleaner, more powerful, more accurate, etc. I just hope it keeps being available in the US for a long time to come.
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Offline streak

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2012, 05:45:54 AM »
Ranch13 and Nobade,
 Thanks for the info!!
 I will have to try some!
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Offline Rock6.3

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2012, 06:15:30 AM »
Who has the best price on KIK these days?
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Offline Nobade

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 03:09:58 PM »
I get mine from Powder Inc. He gets $13/lb including shipping and Haz Mat if you order 25lb. or more.
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Offline Co. Batguano

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2012, 10:43:02 AM »
25 lbs of powder is a LOT of 3F!  Not so much if you're shooting cannons though.
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Offline Ranch13

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Re: Goex vs Schuetzen
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2012, 12:05:53 PM »
A 25 lb case of blackpowder is only good for about 2500 45-70's, that's not as much as it seems if a person shoots much competition. Even back in the day when I shot alot of muzzleloader matches a case would just get us thru the year.
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