45/70 speeds

[original]

ok i finally got around to loading up some 45/70 for my handi rifle.   I am using meister 350gr cast large rifle primer and reloader 7 no crimp.   I could not find the exact match in the books so how do i know how fast i am pushing these?  Is there some kind of formula?  My loads were 42,43,44 and 45 grains but have not shot them yet so do not know how they flew yet.   How do I tell the signs of barrel leading while at the range?   thanks

[petemi]

I've only been reloading for 2 years, so believe me, I'm not an expert.  However, I'd be lost without my chrony.  Without it it's difficult or impossible for me to work up loads or use ballistic tables effectively.  I was fortunate that I had one from my competition traditional ML days when we chronyed each load and weighed each charge and ball.

After looking at Alliant's data for a 350 gr. SP.  They're running the SP at book velocity of 1481 fps with 35 gr. RL7 which would be trap door level.  Your loads at velocities above that without a gas check, will cause leading. The Handi will take more.  I found load data in "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .45-70 Govt"  It lists a 350 gr. bullet for modern rifles, but doesn't specify cast or jacketed.  Starting load 43.0 gr. RL7 for 1678 fps and a top load of 48.0 gr. for 1851 fps.   I love RL7 and other Alliant powders, but I find their data limited.  For example, none at all for .356 and .358 Winchester, and a very marginal selection of bullet types and weights in most calibers.

Good luck,

Pete

[GH1]

Try sending an e-mail to the powder manufacturer (Alliant?) . Be sure to send all tyhe pertinent info such as barrel length, bullet weight, wheter it's cast of jacketed, crimp or no crimp, etec. They should be able to give you a ballpark figure.
As far as leading detection, it's easy with a Handi.  Just break it open and look down the breech, if there's any leading it will be easily seen. For what it's worth, I have a synth stock Handi in .45-70, it's a very fun rifle.  Ilike it a lot. I get a little bit of leading but not too much. I think it will go away as the barrel wears in. I use some JB bore polish on it & it seemed to help. I use a 405 gr FP from Missouri Cst sized at .459 with 30 gr of AA5744. Prety stout but not God awful.
GH1

[Swampman]

You should be able to see the leading when you look down the barrel.  I find it to be a non-issue.
 

[keith44]

guessing bullet speed will only get you within 1,000 fps plus or minus 800 fps.  Use a chronograph for that.


I shoot only cast hand loaded bullets in my .38 special, both .44 Mags, .41 Mag, and .45-70.  With all of these leading is not a problem as long as the bullet is properly sized (or slightly oversized) made of an alloy correct for the velocity expected, and the correct lube is used for the application.

[tacotime]

It's true, anyone without a chrono is in the dark and guessing wrong.  I matched loads in the manuals for a long time then got a chrono and found the actual speeds were very different than I thought.

[kevinsmith5]

Post this over in the Handi section. Pretty sure Quick (AKA Tim) has a computer program called Quickload he can give you an estimate with.

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[Ireload2]

Original
if you have a ballistic coefficient (bullet shape) you can compare with a known bullet you can compare drop at 100 yards and 200 yards and get a reasonable estimate of the accuracy.  The old Hornady manuals have that data. If you do not have a Hornady manual ask one of us after you get the drop numbers.  BTW no matter what you do the 45-70 is never about pure speed.
If you try to go fast it will just beat you up.