I have a friend of mine who is a great shot. He gets around 90-95 clays in a 100 round course with 12 gauge. He can get 80 with a 410 and uses the 410 to try to improve and to make it more of a chalenge. Like I said, the 410 used to be a primary squirrel, rabbit, and even quail gun years ago because the shells were less expensive and a farm wife could handle it if need be.