Author Topic: reloading steel cased ammo  (Read 2683 times)

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Offline cybin

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reloading steel cased ammo
« on: July 22, 2012, 03:47:08 PM »
I know everyone says that you cannot reload once fired steel cased empties. Why?
It was good enough to load once at the factory--and in quit a lot of what I'm seeing--the empties look to be in pretty good shape--and boxer primed.
 
I don't want to hear "Becouse you read it in a gun magazine" or "Becouse someone told you that you cannot reload it"-----Have any of you ever tried it???   Do you personally know someone who did try it ? and what was the results.
 
I predict that in the next 20 years or so--brass ammo will sell at a premium--and steel cased ammo will be the norm in most calibers.
 
On Utube there is a guy who pulled the full metal jacket bullet from a military steel case--resized it--then reloaded it using a soft point hunting bullet. He crimped it using the Lee factory crimp dies.
 
cybin

Offline lakota

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 04:19:56 PM »
I read an article wear the author reloaded steel cased. 45 acp rounds. He got a few uses out of them before they started splitting during resizing. A few problems I could see with reloading them would be wear and tear on your sizing die and also the priming system of the case
 If they are Berdan prime I dont think a regular decapper will kick the old primer out.



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Offline cybin

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 04:37:05 PM »
A lot of the ones I have been seeing are boxer primed--so should reload as regular brass. I haven't checked--but would think that some of the dies would be made of tool steel--and with well lubed steel cases  shouldn't have any effect on the dies.
 
2 or 3 reloadings would be beter than none I would think--and have had regular brass that only lasted that long.
 
cybin

Offline Mikey

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2012, 12:35:05 AM »
I think the issue is how brittle the steel (or Aluminum) that is used.  When the US stated making steel cased 45 acp ammo during WWII it simply was not meant to be reloaded.  When  Aluminum casings first came out some of the problems were that they were too brittle and would crack at the case mouth with the first shooting or they were too soft and the case got crumpled during cycling. 
I fiddled around with Aluminum CCI cases and reloaded them once or twice but stopped when the primer seated way too easily or the case mouth wouldn't hold the bullet well.  I haven't fiddled with steel cases as the last bunch, by Wolfe, has/had a green laquer coating on them that I didn't want to bugger my dies with. 
On occasion I might fiddle with some of the steel or Aluminum cases but prefer brass. 

Offline DANNY-L

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2012, 03:35:50 AM »
My thoughts are that steel on steel something has got to wear and I would rather use brass as it is softer rather than put the wear and tear on my dies and rifle.

Offline cybin

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2012, 03:44:57 AM »
Well I prefer brass myself--but I predict that in the future brass will become much more expensive and steel will come to be the norm. In that kind  of world, if we reload, we sill have to figure out a way to make steel work for us.
 
It is like I tell a lot of people--reloading is cheaper--but in the long run it really isn't any cheaper for us who reload, becouse we do a lot more shooting. I see more and more steel cases every year on the ground at the shooting ranges I go to, and they are in more and more calibers. This winter I intend to do some serious studing on reloading 7.62x39 steel cases. BUT--I shoot many ,or most of the 7.62x39 anymore in a single shot rifle. May be less of a problem for me, than if I was using a SKS or a AK.
 
I was just wondering if anyone has had much experience with reloading steel cases and what their results were. I figure you have to clean the dies more often--probably with laquer thinner,may have to heat the cases up to anneal them--but not cool them down with water as you do with brass cases--just let them cool naturally in the room air. After that you may have to even coat them with some sort of lub so as to make them slide into the chamber of your rifle with fewer problems. A lot of work I admit--but when brass gets more expensive--(too expensive) it may become the only way. Just something to think about and play with during the winter months.
 
cybin
 
 
 
 

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 03:50:09 AM »
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Don Fischer

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 04:36:56 AM »
I wouldn't even buy steel case ammo, why? If your worried about brass case's down the road, stock up now. I believe I have a life time supply of brass case's for everything I load.
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Offline Old Syko

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 05:59:33 AM »
I loaded steel case 5.56 some time back and had no problems with them.  The steel used work hardens much quicker than brass which results in split necks quite soon.  About 3 firings was the limit with a fair number of pieces not making it that far.  These were all loaded to the same velocities as their brass counterpart that lasts 3 to 4 times as long with the particular load I used.  Do not use case weight to determine capacities due to the difference in weight between steel and the usual brass alloys.  Use a measurable medium and adjust loads accordingly.  Use a proper lube and as much of it as you can get away with and die problems won't exist.  One Shot and similar dry lubes won't get it.  For now brass is the way to go but if times get as tough as most of us expect them to steel will get you by for a time. 

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 10:27:55 AM »
I never owned a center fire semi-auto handgun or rifle until recently. Now that I do have a mini 14 and a 9mm handgun, I can see why you would contemplate steel cases. I do not reload for my 9mm, I buy cheap ammo to practice with and buy more expensive self defense ammo for carry. I have saved the brass, even though I have no dies for it to reload with. I did have 400 rounds of new 223 Winchester brass setting around and loaded it up for the Mini 14. My first session, I was digging through the grass for the empties. I lost several, too many in my cheap a** mind. On my second session, I laid out a large plastic tarp to catch the empties. This time I got most of them. I can see where you would want to get cheap brass (steel) and fire it once and forget it. So steel cases, if you pick them up from the range for free to reload with would make some sense to me. Reload them once and forget them, do not worry about picking anything up. Or if you are buying your ammo and accuracy is not an issue, cheap ammo is best and do not worry about picking up empties.

As for my revolvers, bolt guns, single shot guns and pump guns I will stick to brass cases, thank you. If I am going to worry about the cost of the brass, I can always download the brass a little and make it last a long time. Long enough to out last steel by quit a bit. If you can get steel for free, then I would guess it is cheaper. But if you buy the ammo and fire it and recover the cases, I am not so sure it is that much cheaper. It may be more expensive. the cost difference between brass ammo and steel ammo looked at over the reloading life of each is.... You can get several reloads out of brass, especially if you periodically anneal the case mouths. Even if you buy the cases new and reload them enough times, the cost per shot goes way down. You can easily get 10 reloadings out of straight walled cases and you can get 5 out of bottle necked cases. You can get much more than that if you do not load right up to the limit and anneal the case mouths every so often. If a case costs $.50 and you get 10 reloads out of them, it costs you a nickle per shot. If your brass for a handgun costs $25/100 and you can get 10 reloads out of them, your cost just went down to two and half cents a shot, about the cost of your primer. Less if you reload cases more than 10 times. Bullets are now your most expensive component. If you cast your own bullets to save money or what ever, then the life of your brass just went up too. Now you can get 20-25 maybe more reloads out of a case because you are loading to low pressures. So if you can recover your brass, the cost is not that much per shot.

There are things you have to watch with steel cases, rust is one of them. So you would have to be careful about long term storage. Would you trust a steel case where there was a rust pit? If you oil the cases to prevent rust, will it not grab the chamber walls and cause excess pressure on the breech face? If you coat it with a varnish, will it stick to the chamber walls and be difficult to extract or not extract at all?

To me the disadvantages of steel cases vs brass is just too great to even mess with. The cost difference is just not that great to chance any potential problems. However, if I could get boxer primed steel for real cheap (free) in 223 and I would reload and shoot it soon after, it would make some sense to me. I really do not like to hunt for empties and it effects how much I shoot the Mini 14 because of it.

I do not shoot my semi-autos that much. This is because I get a bigger kick out of placing one shot exactly where I want it, than putting 10 rounds down range in 10 seconds. I know that there are ARs that are very accurate and can place bullets almost as well as the best bolt guns, but you have to start chasing your brass around. I do not think that anyone that is very serious about accuracy would shoot steel cases anyway. But each their own, if you like to rip up the range with rapid fire, then that is your right and have at it. My departed Brother-In-Law is the latter type. He loved to put as many bullets down range as fast as he could. He never reloaded a single round, he bought every thing he shot. He never understood why I would convert a bolt gun with a magazine over to a single shot. To each their own.

As always, this is still a free country and you are welcome to do what ever you wish. If you wish to reload steel cases until they fail, that is your business. For me I will stick to the brass cases, the real cost is not that high, just a few pennies per shot. I have enough brass 223 (in ammo cans) laid away to get me through for quite a while. If I am stormed, I could not shoot every thing I have without melting down the barrel, but more than likely, I would go down long before that. If the cost of brass cases does get that high or I can not afford them any longer, I will load up what I have left and save them for the defense of the home front and a few for hunting. I will shoot rim fires for my pleasure. I have more than enough to last me, even if I do not buy any more.

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Offline mechanic

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 10:47:58 AM »
I've just never seen the necessity to try.  The only steel case I've had hold of is .223, 762x39, and 762x54.  I can buy loaded steel case in the 762's cheaper than I can load it, and everywhere I've seen a bunch of .223, there was also a large pile of brass cases on the ground.  I usually sweep up a 5 gallon bucket at the range, use a magnet to pull out the steel, and throw it in the dumpster there.  This keeps the ranger from spazzing because people won't pick up their empties, and gives me a lot of usable brass.
 
If you want to make a trip to Ga., you can pick up enough steel case in a day or so to last several lifetimes, if indeed you can reload it.
 
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2012, 03:34:08 AM »
Even with the best lube, I would think that reloading steel case ammo would wear out your dies much faster. Not sure how fast, to many variables. Like a couple others, stock up on brass cases. Gun clubs,gun shows, internet sellers/traders. Lots of ways to get extra components. gypsyman
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2012, 04:09:10 AM »
I would think that after a couple resizings the steel would be worn out.
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Offline oneoldsap

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2012, 09:08:49 AM »
          Go for it , and report back with your results !

Offline mdi

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2012, 10:48:18 AM »
First off, "everyone" doesn't say you can't reload steel cases. Several have posted thay they have successfully reloaded steel cases. I haven't tried it for quite a while, but as I remember the cases weren't "elastic", return to size after firing, as brass and sizing was difficult. I don't think you'd wear out any quality dies (steel dies are much harder than the steel used for cases) and their reloading life is very short, with one or at the most two reloads because steel work hardens faster and is less "elastic" than brass so it cracks much sooner than a brass case will. Plus it jes ain't worth the trouble, everything available in steel case is also available in brass cases...

Offline lrrice

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2012, 05:54:19 AM »
I won't buy steel cases, but I will pick them up at the range if the coating isn't damaged or rusted and they are boxer primed.  life is too short to mess with berdan primed unless that's all you can get.  I have never done 223 but have done quite a bit of .45 acp.  If they are going to split, they will do it when you expand the case mouth.  I put them in separate boxes to be used when I won't be able to recover most of my cases.  I lube them even with the carbide dies to try to protect the coating and my die.  If you are worried about your steel die, buy a Lee RGB it wouldn't take much lost brass to pay for one of them.   It makes a cheap source of reloads that you don't mind losing but I don't make a habit of shooting steel on a regular basis, new or old.  It's kinda like beer, free always tastes better.

Offline victorcharlie

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2012, 11:14:28 AM »
I've reloaded a few steel cases in 45 acp.
It was by accident, had a few steel cases mixed in with the brass and while they were a bit stiffer going in the die, nothing bad happened.

They shoot just fine.

That said, I've got plenty of brass cases and don't intend to continue with steel.
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Offline charles p

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2012, 11:30:51 AM »
I've loaded some steel cases in 7-30W.  I have a TC pistol and a TC carbine barrel.  I resize 30-30 brass for the carbine and Federal steel cases for the pistol.  This helps me DI the loads, which are slightly hotter for the carbine tube.
 
Last year I loaded some 300WSM steel cases for a friend and they were not a problem.  I guess I prefer brass over steel, but so far I don't have any issues with the steel cases.

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2012, 12:15:12 PM »
I'm in the process of doing a test right now using Wolf steel cased 223's , of the 20 that I started with none have failed and I'm at loading number 9 . I started with 20 once fired case's that were range pick-ups fired in an unknown rifle , all are being FL sized with the same Lee die set .
 
COL is checked after every sizing and at this point I have only seen a .004 growth in over all length , all are sized using Imperial sizing wax and are loaded to mid-level load , no HOT stuff . I'm hoping to get around 15 loads before I start seeing split necks if all stays true to past work .
 
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Offline bkraft

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2012, 02:43:29 PM »
Once again I'm about to show my ignorance. Could you anneal the cases to slow up the work hardening?
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Offline lrrice

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 02:59:28 AM »
Don't know takes a lot of heat and might have some distortion and you would probably end up with scaly cases.  You have to heat it until a magnet is no longer attracted then bury it in lime or ashes so it will cool really slow.  At least that's the only way I know of to anneal steel.  Maybe some else knows for sure.

Offline cybin

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 03:48:02 PM »
Stimpylu32
What kind of rifle are you using for your test?  If I can find some more 7.62x39 boxer primed (I have only 6 right now but have thrown more than that away) I intend to do a test like yours using a single shot Russian made rifle.
 
cybin

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2012, 06:07:12 AM »
cybin
 
I'm using 2 different rifles for this test , shooting one then the other , a Steven's 200 bolt gun as well as my Handi Rifle , that way I know that the case's are being worked not just necked sized as the Handi has a chamber on the loose side while the 200 is a nice tight cut .
 
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Offline cybin

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2012, 04:31:57 PM »
Great--hope you keep us posted on your results--so far it sounds interesting.
 
cybin

Offline Land_Owner

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2012, 05:03:23 AM »
Once again I'm about to show my ignorance. Could you anneal the cases to slow up the work hardening?

Yes, but you are encouraged to do this after you shoot the round or else your results may vary...



....just teasing you of course.

Offline jasonprox700

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2012, 10:37:47 PM »
Last year I loaded some 300WSM steel cases for a friend and they were not a problem.  I guess I prefer brass over steel, but so far I don't have any issues with the steel cases.

Huh?  What company makes steel cased 300 WSM?  Are you sure you don't mean nickel plated?

Offline stimpylu32

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2012, 05:57:19 AM »
Last year I loaded some 300WSM steel cases for a friend and they were not a problem.  I guess I prefer brass over steel, but so far I don't have any issues with the steel cases.

Huh?  What company makes steel cased 300 WSM?  Are you sure you don't mean nickel plated?

jason
 
You would be supprised at what you can find in steel these days , I even found some Russ or Chec steel cased 22 Hornets at the range awhile back .  ???
 
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Offline jasonprox700

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2012, 01:54:14 PM »
Yeah, I've found some off the wall steel cartridges at the range, but just never WSM or WSSM.

Offline savage308

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Re: reloading steel cased ammo
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2012, 07:44:31 AM »
i LOADED WOLF steel 223 several years ago just to see how it would work and had good results. only reloaded them once and they did fine so i began saving them for a rainy day. when it comes ill be ready.till then i keep loading brass.