Winchester vs Brooks

[Lancer28ac]

Hi guys
I'm a newbie here, I've lurking the last few day trying to learn a bit about cannons. I decided I wanted a noise maker and was prepared to buy one of the cartridge loaded Winchesters signal cannons from Bellmore Johnson Company.
After doing some reading here, I've come to the conclusion that one of the cannons from Brooks-USA would be a far better investment as well as being much more historically accurate In appearance. I'm leaning towards the 32 Pdr .50 cal. at $275 or the .50 cal, Napoleon at $250. Would these be a wise choice?
Here is my other problem. I have neither the tools nor the skill to make an historically accurate field carriage which I prefer over a Naval style carriage. Can anyone here suggest where I can purchase a quality field carriage for the Brooks cannons?

[Double D]

Talk to Zulu http://www.jmelledge.com/  He is a sponsor here and make Carriages for the  Brooks guns

[Doc Brown.]

I would go with the Brooks cannon over the Whinchester. I don't know why but the brooks USA websites pictures suck. I know a guy who has a brooks Napoleon on a carriage he made and the barrel looks like a million bucks. On there website the pics just don't do it justice. It looks alot like polished gold in person and I can see why they call it the golden gun.
 
I have only ever been able to find one website for smaller cannon wheels. The wheels are in my opinion not that good for a cannon but they are all I could ever find for sale that are made and ready to ship. Heres the link.
 
http://www.amishwares.com/site/1504461/product/189-SCW

[GGaskill]

The wheels are in my opinion crap but they are all I could ever find.

Well, the guy does say, "Amish handcrafted steam bent hickory wood wagon wheel or cart wheel  ..."  They aren't represented as being artillery wheels and don't look like artillery wheels.  There are some people offering artillery wheels; look through the threads here for at least some of them.  But good wooden wheels aren't cheap.

[keith44]

Brooks barrel on a Zulu carriage would be an heirloom piece, the Winchester might be an acceptable noise maker for a few years.

[Doc Brown.]

The wheels are in my opinion crap but they are all I could ever find.

Well, the guy does say, "Amish handcrafted steam bent hickory wood wagon wheel or cart wheel  ..."  They aren't represented as being artillery wheels and don't look like artillery wheels.  There are some people offering artillery wheels; look through the threads here for at least some of them.  But good wooden wheels aren't cheap.

I should have phrased this better. There the only 10" wooden wheels that come close to a cannon wheel that I could ever find that are made and ready to ship. 
Your right

[Lancer28ac]

Thanks for your input guys, much appreciated. I've been reading lots of old posts here....I'm rather surprised at the amount of collective knowledge here on what I mistakenly thought was a very small niche in the firearms collecting hobby. I've learned that there's a lot to learn.  I also suspect there is more than one cannon in my future.

[keith44]

There is something about the ground shaking kaboom followed up with the cloud of brimstone hanging in the air that is very addictive (the larger cannons "firing for effect") the smaller window shakers are more affordable, and economical, but just as addictive

You have been warned   

[flagman1776]

Well, a Napoleon barrel belongs of a field carruiage which requires artillery wheels if you want to be correct.  And there in lies the problem...   Spoked wheels which a halfway decent appearance are expensive & hard to come by...  a lot of jigs, fixtures & time.  This is my my Scale Artillery barrel is sitting on my bench still.
A Naval barrel with carriage or Siege barrel with carriage are pretty similar (for the picky, naval would have had wooden wheels to keep from scaring the decks) but are reasonably doable by a novice with patience & basic woodworking skills.   

[Doc Brown.]

Check out these brooks USA cannon barrels on some super sweet carriages.
 

[Lancer28ac]

Well, a Napoleon barrel belongs of a field carruiage which requires artillery wheels if you want to be correct.  And there in lies the problem...   Spoked wheels which a halfway decent appearance are expensive & hard to come by...  a lot of jigs, fixtures & time.  This is my my Scale Artillery barrel is sitting on my bench still.
A Naval barrel with carriage or Siege barrel with carriage are pretty similar (for the picky, naval would have had wooden wheels to keep from scaring the decks) but are reasonably doable by a novice with patience & basic woodworking skills.   

Yes, I figured this out about the field carriages so it kinda looks like I might have to go with a naval gun. Does anyone make a cast artillery wheel that can be painted to look passable? A wheel that was cast out of aluminum, I would think, could be made much cheaper than a hand crafted wood wheel. At least that would be an option.
@dockholidaiy .........those are some sweet looking pieces.

[irishman]

Lancer28ac
 
     We offer a 'utility' carriage on our website. They are made of red oak, solid and can be enhanced with some hardware. Our intent in offering these low cost holders is so that one can buy and shoot right away and give them time to find the carriage builder or make their own.
 
     We have several of the 50 Cal. SAMCC barrels in stock in both styles, as well as other barrels and sizes. DD did a great thread on the building of a proper carriage in step by step from A to F as in FIRE! I will find tomorrow and post here.
 
                                              Michael
                                     Home of the Golden Gun

[Lancer28ac]

Lancer28ac
 
     We offer a 'utility' carriage on our website. They are made of red oak, solid and can be enhanced with some hardware. Our intent in offering these low cost holders is so that one can buy and shoot right away and give them time to find the carriage builder or make their own.
 
     We have several of the 50 Cal. SAMCC barrels in stock in both styles, as well as other barrels and sizes. DD did a great thread on the building of a proper carriage in step by step from A to F as in FIRE! I will find tomorrow and post here.
 
                                              Michael
                                     Home of the Golden Gun

Thank you for weighing in on my situation. I saw the utility carriage on your web sight, do you have wheels & trunnion straps (not sure if that's what you call them) available for it? The SAMCC barrel is a beautiful piece of work and is definitely one of the barrels I'm considering. I found the thread you refereed to.....it's a monster , going to take a while to digest it. LOL

[irishman]

Lancer28ac,
 
     We do have wheels and trunnion straps. Basic, yes, but not shabby. I will be back in shop late Monday and post one on tuesday.
 
                                         Michael

[onegreatshot]

Lancer 28c, I see your a man that likes a nice weapon, by look of that Thompson Sub M/G over your shoulder. I, like many others on this thread are owners of a Brooks Golden Gun. I first purchased a 50 cal. with a naval carriage, nice big boom. However I wanted more boom so I purchased a 69 cal. again on a naval carriage what a great boom maker. Again I wanted more so I have ordered a 1 inch bore from Michael which is in line to be made shortly. Now there are wood workers on this site that will make a carriage, however they are not cheap but reasonable. Just ask who they are and talk with them. Good hunting and good luck.  Dennis

[de_lok]

Well, a Napoleon barrel belongs of a field carruiage which requires artillery wheels if you want to be correct.  And there in lies the problem...   Spoked wheels which a halfway decent appearance are expensive & hard to come by...  a lot of jigs, fixtures & time.  This is my my Scale Artillery barrel is sitting on my bench still.
A Naval barrel with carriage or Siege barrel with carriage are pretty similar (for the picky, naval would have had wooden wheels to keep from scaring the decks) but are reasonably doable by a novice with patience & basic woodworking skills.   

Yes, I figured this out about the field carriages so it kinda looks like I might have to go with a naval gun. Does anyone make a cast artillery wheel that can be painted to look passable? A wheel that was cast out of aluminum, I would think, could be made much cheaper than a hand crafted wood wheel. At least that would be an option.
@dockholidaiy .........those are some sweet looking pieces.

The only good cast aluminum wheels (and carriages) I've seen in the past 20 years were made by Paul Miller (not saying there the only ones made, just the only ones I've seen).They were 7, 12, and 14 inch. I believe he would only sell the whole cannon. If you had purchased a cannon or barrel previously he would sell just the carriage. These were more expensive 15 years ago than many commercially available ones today, but everything I have ever seen come from his shop was rediculously well made. Dixie Gun Works sells 1/8 scale (7 in) cast aluminum wheels and cannon kits. The castings are rough, but make good cannons if enough elbow grease in applied! Hand made wheels are just that, hense their higher price tag. High production time and cost management would bring their cost way down, but the market won't justify it. To reduce the retail of a custom 14 inch cannon wheel from the 250-300 range to the 100-150 range, a manufacturer would have to spend tens of thousands of dollars in tooling, dedicate a certain amount of floor space, and hire and manage employees, and have hard market research data to make it happen. This is why so many "Home Spun" shops are filling this demand. Problem is for all the good ones a few bad ones pop up on the scene trying to take advantage. This website has done a good job steering people away from the baduns' and to the gooduns'. Good luck with your build. I am adding a photo of a DGW 1/8 scale I did 12-14 years ago...................

[Lancer28ac]

Lancer28ac,
 
     We do have wheels and trunnion straps. Basic, yes, but not shabby. I will be back in shop late Monday and post one on tuesday.
 
                                         Michael

Michael
Thank you for the info. I'm looking forward to your post on Tuesday.
 
 

Lancer 28c, I see your a man that likes a nice weapon, by look of that Thompson Sub M/G over your shoulder. I, like many others on this thread are owners of a Brooks Golden Gun. I first purchased a 50 cal. with a naval carriage, nice big boom. However I wanted more boom so I purchased a 69 cal. again on a naval carriage what a great boom maker. Again I wanted more so I have ordered a 1 inch bore from Michael which is in line to be made shortly. Now there are wood workers on this site that will make a carriage, however they are not cheap but reasonable. Just ask who they are and talk with them. Good hunting and good luck.  Dennis

Yes, guilty as charged....I love nice weapons, particularly those with historical importance. My WW2 era Thompson (NFA registered of course) is the center piece of my 75 gun collection. I have nothing in my collection representing the importance of artillery, hence my interest in acquiring at least a scale replica sample.
 
At this point, I have decided to go with the bigger .69 cal. rather than the .50 cal. and also decided I need a Field piece AND a Naval piece.
 
My plan was to work on the Naval piece 1st only because it seemed much easier to acquire a Naval carriage than a Field carriage. Those plans have changed after finding a non firing Ardesa (from Spain) Napoleon with Field carriage. It has the same carriage Ardesa uses on their .69 cal. firing model. I was able to pick this piece up for $400 and hope to fit a .69 cal. Brooks Napoleon to it. I'm hoping it will make a nice fully functional display piece.
 

[onegreatshot]

Lancer, it wont stop there, it's like eating potato chips can't have just one

[irishman]

Lancer28ac,
 
I am doing a switch to 69 cal. after your comment about a Napoleon. Just finishing a Napy which is shown on a utility carriage with wheels and no trunnion straps. Also shown is a 32 PDR 69 cal. on a utility carriage with trunnion straps and no wheels.


 
Just curious, are these pictures of higher or lesser quality than our website pics?  It seems they look different on different sites--or maybe different browsers...
 
 
                                              Michael
                                     Home of the Golden Gun