A MUST READ..How an entire hunting party nearly went to jail

[muskyhunter]

I have had contact with a warden(s) 4 times in Wisconsin and 1 time in Colorado. Each time they were very professional and I had no problems with how they made contact (other than being annoyed about having to get out of a tree on private property when a warden walked up to the tree at a prime time) or their decisions. All were friendly.

There are plenty of poachers and violators. If it weren't for wardens, hunters, the rest of the public  and wildlife would be a lot worse off. I think the regulations are overboard sometimes. It people weren't trying to find loopholes all the time they would be less complicated.

Like anything else, there will always be some overzealous wardens. I would be upset if a warden made contact with me in some of the ways described that I have read. Just like law enforcement, ambitious wardens almost certainly catch the most poachers. Once seasoned with some experience, generally their contacts with people are safer and upset fewer people. 

I am a police officer and must say I appreciate the conditions wardens work under. I always have backup within minutes away, they do not. In addition, almost everyone they make contact with is armed in some manner. It would be a hard transition for me because I am used to being very authoritative/controlling when dealing with anyone I know is armed and therefore a larger potential threat.

It is hard for anyone who has not worked in law enforcement in some manner to understand the outlook of LEO's.

When wildlife agencies have people who normally do not work the road as wardens go out to enforce game laws during big reasons, it only stands to reason there will be more problems.

Regarding speeding citations, etc.... as was already stated officers are expected to get out there and be proactive which would result in some citations. The expectation is not just on behalf of supervisors but much more importantly the community they work for. A lot of citizens are upset by speeders in their neighborhood and complain to law enforcement.

When a traffic citation is written by a LEO (at least in WI) only a very small portion of it (I think at most $30) eventually goes to the city, the rest goes to the state, courts, etc...Minimum citation for speeding (1-10mph over) in WI is approx. $160.

Anyhow, JMHO.

Good luck hunting.

[SHOOTALL]

LEO's choose their job , if they work without back up they knew before they accepted the job of game warden , their job is to protect the game not harass the hunter ! IMHO !

[crow_feather]

SHOOTALL,

Some people try to explain the why of how things are.  They do this to try to get people to see the other side and understand just a little of other people's problems.  They are people of good faith and and have no anger for anyone, they just want you to try and see their side of things.

And then you come out with a rude, crude, and socially unacceptable response that makes people understand just who you are.  To put it into the words of an ex-antagonist of mine GROW UP!

[SHOOTALL]

CROW FEATHER ,
I am sorry you can't seem to accept difference of opinion . I know and am friends with many LEO's and they agree they can do their job without crying the blues ! They accepted the job knowing they had to follow the laws they enforced !
Then every so often there is the cop that gets out of line ! most often he is the cry baby also ! HE IS THE ONE CALLING OTHER PEOPLE NAMES !

[crow_feather]

          "their job is to protect the game not harass the hunter ! IMHO" !

I do not see how you can have LEO friends when you throw out a broad statement as above.  Do you tell your friends that they had better not harass any hunters as they are only there to protect the game?  There is so much more to it that you can't seem to understand.  Try talking to your "friends" instead of confronting them.

[SHOOTALL]

I don't tell them anything !
The hallmark of a " good " LEO is their ability to tell the difference between lawful and unlawful , and proceed accordingly !
A good LEO does not harass a hunter on the outside chance they will make a mistake and they can say gotcha !
I don't consider checking lic harassment ! I do however consider long in depth interrogation with no apparent violation harassment . I don't consider observation of hunters a bad thing but unwarranted intrusion is a bad thing !
you said you never heard of speed traps and many of us live with them everyday , i don't fault your statements about LEO's you seem to live in a world where Pressure to generate funds for local govt. is nonexistent ( LUCKY YOU ! ) , but please consider the conditions many of the rest of us endure ! As i stated before I had a blind CHARGED by a game warden who had not ID ed himself , as we were in an elevated blind and no chance of hiding ducks , just how did such a dangerous act protect the waterfowl ? He could have pulled up ID ed himself and searched the blind in a much safer manor with the same result !
I will pass this on for you to consider - the state police here sell a support sticker and instruct you to place it on the left rear bumper ! everyone else calls it a suck up sticker ! cause if you have one you get a warning not a ticket for a lot of offenses ! On my truck i let the old one show about a inch when i cover it with the new one so they know i always pay up !

[crow_feather]

SHOOTALL,

There are all sorts of LEO's that don't belong in the business.  I admit that, as I have worked with them and have observed them screwing up.  Then there are officers that have had a bad day and really screw up big time. (I've done that more than once) Maybe they had a fight with their wife or husband, maybe a person has called them names when they were only doing the job they had to do.  But they have this need to stick it to someone.  And then there are the Reserves, the wannabe's that finally get their chance to do police stuff and overreact (most reserves are not this way, but some do slip by).  The part that has always bothered me is that instead of law enforcement and citizens working together to eliminate police corruption, it always seems to get to a US vs.THEM struggle.  I am sorry that things have to be that way.  In Calif. where I worked with the Calif. State Police and later, the CHP, and here in Idaho, where I am part time with the Fremont County Sheriff, it is not that way.  I can only apologize for those of my profession that are as you describe and tell you that I could never live in a place that caused you to fear those who are there to protect you.

[SHOOTALL]

It is like any job a small % are stinkers and the rest pay a price for it ! I hope it didn't sound as if I am against LEO's  I ASSURE THAT'S NOT SO !  We have some of the best here , an example we now have a " TAX ' for certain traffic violations that increase the cost in one case to over a $1000 dollars for failure to use a turn single . haven't heard of it being enforced yet ! guess the LEO's took a stand !

[SHOOTALL]

oh yea ! the tax is not applied to out of state drivers ! fair ?

[crow_feather]

Sorry, but don't bother me none

[SHOOTALL]

YET !
ya know how bad laws seem to spread !

[Rogue Ram]

BTT as hunting season nears. Beware folks. ESPECIALLY PRONGHORN HUNTERS! Last year these bozos confronted off duty Oregon State Troopers who were IN OREGON ON PRIVATE PROPERTY hunting pronghorns, and tried their shenanigans claiming the troops were in Nevada.........the property owner showed up with his map showing his ownership, and the OSP guys had their GPS. Someday this mess will not end well......carry a good GPS, have a good map, have a partner with you. You may not have cell coverage, but, plug in the OSP dispatch number as well as the local OSP office number.

RR

[Hunter Fishman]

I know this happened quite a while back but for F&G its scary to know that theres alot of armed people they deal with who dont care about the life of a game warden & that if in the 6th party members position sitting out of sight with a rifle watching a total stranger draw down on their friends, would pull the trigger & have had a new ATV,game warden uniform, gun belt, gps and anything else that the crooked game warden had on him weather they knew he was a warden or not!
So I believe they felt threatened by being out numbered. thats why they acted the way they did to establish authority & put you all in a state of confusion.
YES, the 1st guy the day befor should have worned you or at least informed you of where he believed you were. He was thinking that if he had worned you & if you had been a poacher that you would just try somewhere else.

I have encountered a simalar situation but I wasnt doing anything wrong, F&G parked blocking the only road in wich is gated keeping minimal axcess & snuck in farther to the game refuge line...
(or so they thought) posting up on a rise above the road waiting to ambush hunters walking back to there vehicles clear on the other side of the preserve 2 miles away.
I had my gun unloaded & had licence,tag ect.
They came running out of the bushes down the ridge screaming FREEZE, DONT MOVE, GAME WARDEN! I chuckled the whole time they aproached while on the phone with my dad.
I had never seen a game warden except lazily sitting under a tree out in the open waiting for people to bring deer to him to have signed off or at the lake while fishing. so to have them spring out at me was kinda funny. They were very nervious & hyped up as they checked my gear & papers, then ran off back up the hill. I'm glad we have them to protect our wildlife & happy that they do more than any citizen would volentarily, but I dont think that F&G was in the right with what they did to you. not at all!
that frustrates me!
There job is hard, strategicly having to out wit people who hunt on their own home terf & are more familiar with than a game warden who lives 50+ miles away. this may or may not have the case with the nevada/oregon incident but on average they have no idea who they are dealing with so you have to bare with them on that. If They have a quota to meet, that adds even more pressure to the sitiation causing them to over step there boundries in order to keep there job. I think this is why they did this but doesnt make it right. they also know that in their position that they have the power to manipulate the system to their advantage. I hunt an area up to where theres a fence marked game refuge no hunting! but is rusted out & is'nt even readable. according to the out dated maps they currently sell at the forest service,
(and say have accurately marked preserve lines) is way off by 3/4 of a mile in some areas & never even comes close to the fence.
I use the fence as the line ,not the line on the map.
Most people that hunt this area never even cross out of the preserve to hunt they stay on it & shoot the big smart bucks who hang out there close to privat property.
Very few get cought once in a blue moon but Its not a high priority zone so people get away with alot!
It sickens me. what can you do though?... Theres less than 200 game wardens in the state of california, maybe less now with CA. in the financial state its in.
THANKS ARNOLD!!! AKA THE GOVENATOR!
obama aint helping the situation either!
frickin post turtle! he has no idea how he got up there & has no business being up there!...post turtle!

Sorry to bring back a bad memory but its still an active thread & I felt like telling a story, voicing my opinion & ranting on... ; )

[mrussel]

Honestly,sounds like he made a mistake. Mistakes can be costly.They were all ill prepared. Who goes out without USGS quads of the area (and all adjacent areas) they will be in,and not just a GPS,but not one but TWO compasses. It should be part of your gear. They are lucky you ended up with a fine,and not lost in bad weather and dead of hypothermia. A friends GPS in HIS pocket is not going to do much good when hes back at camp and your wandering around lost with no map.

[Rogue Ram]

Hunting season is here again. Watch yourself at the border folks. As far as "ill prepared" goes, mrussel needs to reread the op. I admit GPS at the time would have been nice, especially one beyond the "follow the bread crumb" type, but as I said years ago, you trust your partners to do what they are supposed to then they don't do it.  And as I said, there is NO geographic marker at the border other than a completely unmarked fence. This wasn't like it was wilderness and no one is going to die of hypothermia (maybe gunfire but not hypothermia)  . One more time, it comes down to trusting to whom you hunt with, and that is where this first started to go wrong.  A ticket or a warning would have sufficed the first day, but to let this drag into a second day with no warning was extremely out of line. It was all about money.  The old guy is now retired.  The young one hasn't made the funny papers yet....Hopefully he won't.  Funny, this story has popped up in about 4 different versions over the last decade, each time I hear it it morphs into something making the wardens out to be super heroes.  Don't be their next war story.


RR

[mauser98us]

Well when you consider most states are in a cash crunch because of the economy,most state agencies are just looking to pickup a little revenue. Rico laws were started with the best intentions,but alas the agencies get to spend all the cash from the materials received. Seems like common sense has been left out of everything.