Author Topic: 45/70 Revolver for backup? (Read 1504 times)

BattleRifleG3 · « **on:** November 13, 2003, 05:27:30 AM »

45/70 is a decent round against grizzlies, right? Magnum research makes the BFR in 45/70. If one doesn't want to carry a 45/70 rifle just for personal defense against a griz, would a BFR in 45/70 be enough? Or does the shorter barrel and revolver design rob it of its grizly stopping power and necessitate filing off the sites?

And would the new 500 S&W Mag be better or worse?

Lawdog · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2003, 09:48:01 AM »

I don't think any handgun is suitable for protection against any bear. Reason is most people are going to be carrying the handgun in a holster and the bear isn't going to give you the time it takes to draw the handgun and get it into action. That BFR is one large heavy weapon and you are not going to be carrying it in your hand. IF you were to get in trouble with a bear it is not going to give you much more than 3 - 4 seconds before he(or she) is on you. Take the sling off the rifle so you have to carry it and it is a much better weapon than any handgun, no matter what the caliber. Lawdog

DzrtRat · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2003, 01:23:28 PM »

I kinda wonder what kind of velocity you'd get from a 45/70 in a handgun.

Some things to consider:

A 45/70 is normally loaded with RIFLE powder. Rifle powder doesn't burn as fast as most pistol powders, so I'm thinking that most of the powder would burn AFTER the bullet leaves the barrel? If the barrel was long enough to utilize enough powder to give good velocity, the barrel would also be too long to really be effective in a close encounter. Might as well use a rifle (which ain't a bad idea, by the way).

As far as the pistol/rifle/shotgun for self defense against bears goes, I fit comfortably in the "I haven't been attacked so I don't know nuthin' 'bout it" category (thank goodness). That said, when I'm in bear/lion country I always have a handgun on me (for that matter, I usually have one on me any other time too...). I may or may not be able to get it out of the holster fast enough, but as a last resort I'd rather have that than nothing. Truthfully, if a bear/lion/anything else is so close that I can't get the handgun out, the rifle is going to be too long for me to use anyway so I still want the handgun on my hip.

myronman3 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2003, 01:53:33 PM »

you arent going to hear any words that ring true-er than what lawdog has said on this. if one has to have a handgun, use something you will have on you. and concerning the bfr, a rifle is as easy,if not easier, to carry.

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2003, 09:14:35 PM »

BFRs also come in 444 and 450 Marlin.

I was thinking of carbine setups for this application as well. I've always thought a 45/70 pump with a tube mag, basically like a shotgun, would make a great gun. Am I alone in this?

Lawdog · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2003, 01:19:24 PM »

BattleRifleG3,

Do you think that a pump action would be faster operating than a lever action? I don't own a pump action rifle but I do own a few lever actions so I am wondering which would be faster operating. Lawdog

kciH · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2003, 11:34:44 PM »

A pump shotgun using the HARD lead dangerous game slugs would probably be as good a choice as any pump rifle with a set of ghost ring sights. It would certainly be much more economical. A 12ga with a hard lead slug is very little different from what was used early on for all African game.

myronman3 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 15, 2003, 05:23:51 PM »

Quote from: Lawdog

BattleRifleG3,

Do you think that a pump action would be faster operating than a lever action? I don't own a pump action rifle but I do own a few lever actions so I am wondering which would be faster operating. Lawdog

most definatly. my one big gripe in the world of guns today is a lack of pump action rifles availible. next to an semi auto, the pump is almost as fast. and yeah, i would love to see a pump 45-70.

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 15, 2003, 06:47:23 PM »

I think pumps vs levers boils down to taste, I personally prefer pumps, and would be faster shooting with a pump than a lever. Less articulation of the fingers, just a linear reciprocating motion. With a lever, it's a curvalinear reciprocating motion that also requires individual movement of fingers. Maybe you're an expert in that, if so then I tip my hat to you. I may get a lever action and get better skill, but I'd really like to see a shotgun style 45-70 pump.

Super Rat · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2003, 12:20:02 PM »

Remember that the fastest shooting gun is not the best. You have to recover from recoil and get back on target. So, don't be too eager to use up all your ammo as fast as you can! :lol:

In other words, a pump may indeed be faster, but that might not be a good thing in it's self. You still have to aim the gun to hit your target.

Having said all that, it would be nice to see a 45-70 or .450 Marlin in a pump action. It would be a nifty gun. Seems like it would be easy to make and manufacture too. I can see it now, the "guide gun" version!

Perferator · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2004, 04:24:20 PM »

Kind of a toss up in second shot speed. I have a savage 170 pump 30-30 (now there's a rare piece) and have cycled the action quite speedily. Also in the cabinet is a guide gun in 45-70 which I use +P 350gr handloads. I've taken a few quick shots and the lever is very quick. Given the choice of actions I'd have to stick with the lever, it works fine for me. The pump motion seems to be slower due to the larger range of motion. The lever is a quick "flick" of the wrist and fingers. Both actions are right on sight plane, though...that is a plus for dangerous game follow up shots.

Perferator

hillbill · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2004, 01:36:04 PM »

ok here is a question that aint been asked yet. if you touch off a 45-70 revolver with no earplugs, will you ever be able to hear agin? :eek:

Camp Cook · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2004, 12:48:36 PM »

Hillbill... I'd say that it depends on if your deaf already or not.......... Actually they would ring for a long time and there would be some minor hearing loss, but you would hear again.. Now prolonged shooting without hearing protection will definately damage your hearing!

Super Rat said it best so far... "it all depends on the recoil".....
If both the pump and the lever had the same recoil your time to realign the sights will determine the speed of your next shot. The thing that is faster about the pump is that it can be fired rapidly from the hip where as the lever has to be held to your shoulder for rapid fire.

Cam

hillbill · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2004, 02:01:04 PM »

jus an observattion, has anybody ever seen that guy that is on tv some time shoot 8 clay birds he throws up in air by hand with i believe a pump shot gun? ive always heard a fast man with a pump scattergun could actually shoot faster than a man with an auto. i would also like to see more pump centerfire rifles, maybe clip fed so yu could use them newfangled pointy bullets in them? or shotgun style fed tube mags for the big bullets like 44 and 45. anyone else be interested in one? any factory reps listening? im not sure but ill bet a 44 mag pump gun would sell faster than they could make them.

ihookem · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26, 2004, 04:08:32 PM »

Can you even keep a 45-70 pistol from flying out of your hands when you shoot it? Awfull lot of gun for a pistol grip.

Sourdough · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2004, 03:55:51 PM »

HillBill: Remington makes a pump action rifle, I've got a couple. Trouble is .35 Whelen is the heavist they have made it in. Sure would be nice to have a .45-70 pump, or a .338 Win Mag.

Pumps are the fastest action to get an accurate second shot off. Faster than an Auto, or Lever action. The mechanics of opperating the pump helps pull the gun back down from recoil, and realign it to the target. That's why it is so populer with bird and waterfowlers. I usually take my pump shotgun to the Skeet range a few times before bird season, I can do just as good on the doubles with my pump as I can do with my over and under. Also helps when I am carrying one of my pump rifles hunting. I also carry a pump .22RF for shooting rabbits, that way I don't even think about reloading it becomes automatic to pump after each shot. Thats the trick to shoot the pump enough to get into the habit of pumping after each shot.

BattleRifleG3 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2004, 06:11:30 PM »

I would really love to see a 45-70 pump. In fact I'm trying to design one. Not sure whether to start with a pump shotgun and add a new locking system or start with a lever rifle and convert it to a slide.

Sourdough · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2004, 06:09:22 PM »

Battlerifle: Start with a 410 shotgun. I think the head of the 45-70 case and the 410 are about the same. Also the 45-70 case and 410 shells are close in size. Probably need to beef up the frame, bolt, locking lugs, and barrel. When I was a kid, we had an old 45-70 with a shot out barrel, that my Grandfather had given us to play with. At about 12 or 13 we discovered that short 410 shells would fit into the old gun. We started shooting rabbits with it. Scattered real bad, so we had to be real close.

1911crazy · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2004, 02:23:18 AM »

I always carried a handgun as backup for many years but after we shot our first blackbear I hung my handgun up after seeing the damage the rifles do I realized I was carrying the handgun for nothing. I do carry my handgun when I go out to use the outdoor plumbing(outhouse) we have had visits for critters when we have been sitting in there like coyotes scratching on the door or on occasion a mountainlion stops by. BigBil

ratherbefishin · « **Reply #19 on:** May 16, 2004, 05:15:01 PM »

I was up on the Yukon border last fall on a moose hunt.Wecame across a couple of guys witha moose down, and their 338's were in the canoe- and they had short barrelled pump shotguns[ plugs removed] with slugs within reach of where they were quartering the moose.Some of those grizzlies have learned that a gunshot means food- and will come in .Forwarned is forarmed.

oso45-70 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 19, 2004, 06:30:51 PM »

I think the idea of having a riot type shot gun handy is the best idea of all.
I f you are wanting to finish off a bear the best thing you can do is be ready with the rifle you started with. i think a pistol will get you into more trouble than trying to milk a rattle snake. chances are you will be on rough ground with brush all around you or in a rock pile and that is not the time to be messing with a pistol. Thats just me though.....Joe..........