Author Topic: Which brand of dies for these calibers? (Read 1072 times)

JimG · « **on:** June 11, 2012, 04:05:48 AM »

I've been concentrating on shotshell reloading lately and been having alot of success. I'm ready to start reloading for rifles and pistols. Any thoughts on the various brands of dies? Here's the calibers and brands of rifles and pistols I'm going to need dies for-

.308 Win Handi rifle
.243 Win Handi rifle
.204 Ruger Handi rifle
4- 7.62 x 39 sks/ak rifles that I have not slugged but am assuming are .310-.312 bores
7.62 x 54R Mosin Nagant that I have not slugges but am assuming it also has a .310 or larger bore

I'm going to hold off on the pistols for now. I'm NOT partial to ANY brand but I have seen where some brands don't have the proper sized expander for .310 or larger bores (Hornady for example). Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2012, 05:48:34 AM »

My number one choice in dies is Redding. Best finish, excellent quality but a bit pricy.

Second choice is RCBS followed closely with Hornady or Lyman.

Don't overlook used sets of these to save some extra coin.

Good luck,
CW

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2012, 10:58:18 AM »

This is were CW and myself seem to disagree sometimes , for just starting out , buy Lee dies .

Now I'll explain why I say that .

For the SKS and the MN , neither of these are Bench Rest rifles and as such your ammo is not going to need to be super-sub MOA ammo , it just needs to shoot consistently , Your not going to be concerned with bullet run-out and some of the other issues that come with the less costly dies . And for the Handi's , Lee dies make my 243 SL shoot 1/2" groups @ 100 all day long and that's a chore in itself , along with my 22 Hornet , 223 , 270 , 25/06 , all shoot just fine with the cheaper Lee dies .

stimpy

goodconcretecolor · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2012, 12:18:07 PM »

I'm with Stimpy on this one.

Tom W. · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2012, 12:28:45 PM »

While I'll go with CW on this one, ( except that I've never had nor used Lyman dies ), for Handi rifles Lee does a good job. If you manage to get a different type of rifle, you may find that the Lees, while good fot the Handi's, may not be what you want for the others. I know that was the case for me when I went from Handi's to Ruger #1's and my Savage Model 12.. not to mention all of my handgun dies....

AtlLaw · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2012, 01:36:45 PM »

I started out with Lee dies. As hard as it is to imagine, reloading may not be for everyone. Keep the expense down where you can starting out.

Nowadays, most all my rifle dies are Redding. But I will admit, if you promise not to tell anyone, all my handgun dies are Lee...

tacklebury · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2012, 02:18:50 PM »

If Lee Deluxe dies are available in a caliber, I buy them. If not, I buy a 2-die set and the collet only if it's available. I prefer the collet neck sizing dies for loading and just bumping the shoulder back every couple loads.

Either way I also buy the FCD for the caliber if one's available.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2012, 03:01:56 PM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on June 11, 2012, 01:36:45 PM

I started out with Lee dies. As hard as it is to imagine, reloading may not be for everyone. Keep the expense down where you can starting out.

Nowadays, most all my rifle dies are Redding. But I will admit, if you promise not to tell anyone, all my handgun dies are Lee...

And that's the biggest reason I say start with Lee or if you can find them, used RCBS , if you deside that loading is not your cup of tea you can recoup most of your money , the one thing that matters more than dies in most case's is the press .

The older Lee ones were decent , the new ones are not even worth what you could get for scrap ( way too much flex )

stimpy

Larry L · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2012, 03:19:33 PM »

I've pretty much had all brands over the years. I like the RCBS dies for rifle only. I'd suggest picking them up at a gunshow for cheap. They are warranted for life and RCBS has to be the absolute easiest company to deal with in regards to warranty. Whatever it is, they'll replace it and make you feel good about complaining. I'd avoid Hornady dies especially if you think you'll ever shoot lead bullets. The bullet seat die has a sliding sleeve that guides the bullet perfectly straight into the case. Problem is that lead bullets won't fit in the sleeve as they are usually .001-.002 larger. Same with plated bullets. I've bought Redding dies for the benchrest rifles but I've yet to have a set that I didn't have to send them back. I don't bother with theirs anymore. RCBS has a benchrest set of dies that works as good as any. For pistols, there's only one I use now, and that's the Lee 4 die carbide sets. I load for too many guns of the same cartridge and the Lees are far, far easier to adjust for each different pistol.
Whatever you end up with make sure the locking collar does NOT have a brass Allen head set screw. You'll learn to hate those real quick.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2012, 04:17:57 PM »

Quote from: Larry L on June 11, 2012, 03:19:33 PM

Whatever you end up with make sure the locking collar does NOT have a brass Allen head set screw. You'll learn to hate those real quick.

Boy you said a mouth full there brother , you'll only want to make that mistake ONCE !!

necchi · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2012, 04:50:12 PM »

I'll side with CW,,

But it really is a Ford, Chevy, Dodge thing. They all stand behind their product,

And you'll learn that each has their little peculiarities, and with that, there's a short learning curve to use them.
I personally had a hard time with Lee sizing and seater in 308, changed to RCBS and got it down pat.
Lee's crimp die and Universal de-capper are nice,,

As an aside, almost every bullet maker, and all the die makers have on-line tutorials, spend a bunch of time reviewing them all, the more knowledge you can gain the better your decisions will be.
Beware of marketing tactics,,

Ranch13 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2012, 05:10:53 PM »

Hornady if available, Rcbs or Saeco followed by Lyman.

YRUpunting? · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2012, 01:21:31 AM »

I started reloading about 6 months ago and asked the same questions. The "which brand" question is really the endless Ford-Chevy-Dodge debate. I suggest you shop around and buy one of each brand and try them out for yourself. All of them work, but one may work for you best.

Here is some advice that was not given to me that I wish had been. Buy the Lee Decapping die. Decapping before cleaning the brass will clean the primer pocket well enough. And buy a collet bullet puller (I like the RCBS one). Yes the inertia bullet pullers are cheap and they work, but they make for a miserable experience. Powder goes everywhere and bullets get damaged. Beating a hammer on the bench is not my idea of fun.

shot1 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2012, 01:26:16 AM »

Been loading over 30 years and have used almost every make die around. Lee is just as good as any for 90% of the loading you will ever do. I will suggest STRONGLY that you go with RCBS for the 7.62X54R. They come with both expander balls. One is for .308 diameter bullets (which I have never seen one of these caliber rifles that will shoot a bullet that small) and the PROPER ball for .311/.312 diameter bullets. The Lee dies for 7.62X54R have a expander for the .308 bullets and you will have problems seating larger diameter bullets, shaving bullets, crushing cases etc. Do get you a Lee Factory Crimp Die for this caliber.
Slug your bore to see which bullet you need. If it comes out .310 to .3105 use .311 bullets. If .3105 to .312 use .312 HORNADAY bullets.
Super accurate load I have found for the 7.62X54R M/N rifles. Have found that they like heaver bullets 174/80 grs.
50 grs Accurate 4350, Prvi or Lapua case, CCI 200 primer, .311 Sierra 174 gr Match King or 180 SP OAL 3.000 and if yo need .312 bullets use the Hornady 174 RMSP OAL 2.790 and this is important to best accuracy. Use a Lee Factory Crimp Die on all loads. I have spent a lot of time learning how to make these rifles tack drivers by shimming the actions working the triggers and fixing the sights and doing load work. You can make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

JimG · « **Reply #14 on:** June 12, 2012, 05:00:23 AM »

Wow, thanks for all the replies guys!

cwlongshot · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2012, 05:31:58 AM »

I too have been in this game for some time. Been re loading since the early '70's. Been selling and teaching reloading since about 1990.
By a huge margin, LEE Products is the most returned, broken or simply fail to function product with the most dissatisfied customers bar none. Largly our customers are disgusted with the poor quality of the product and worse customer service.

There is a saying I like to mention when talking a manufacturer such as Lee; The sweetness of a "good deal" quickly sours, as the reality of sour quality is realized...

Personally I have a few of dies. From a number of manufacturers.

I reload quite a bit. The ONLY die set maker to fail with me over these nearly 40 years is LEE and I have had three such failures. The worst was a carbide set have the carbide ring fall apart and fall out! NEVER again.

RCBS, Dillon have superb, even exemplary, customer service. Hornady and Redding are above average. Lyman is about average. LEE is sub, sub par, at best.

It's your money, if you figure, for your use, your willing to forgo quality and product longevity for cheaper cost, try LEE. Many people have and many do use them with success. But for my $ based on many many peoples problems with the product line, I cannot "afford" Lee products.

CW

wncchester · « **Reply #16 on:** June 12, 2012, 08:33:32 AM »

I've been reloading since '65 and have several dozen dies made by at least a dozen brands, all brands that are currently available (except Dillon, and that only because they are never handy when I buy a new set) and some that are no longer available new. If my best buddy wanted to start reloading tomorrow I wouldn't hesitate to approve his choice of Lee's dies. Or any of the others.

Fact is, ALL of my dies work quite well when used correctly. I freqently mix sizers and seaters so I rarely mention what brand(s) of dies are my preferences because it varies slighty by the user features I prefer for different tasks and that's irrelivant to other people's needs.

There are two things you can depend on; 1) if you get a new die set that isn't made right the maker will correct them (and they all have such failures from time to time), and 2) the average quality of ammo you can make with any brand of conventional dies is limited only by your skill and components, not the brand, cost or color of box the dies came in.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2012, 11:14:46 AM »

Any product is good until it breaks...well seems to be good. I really like the looks and feel of RCBS and Redding dies with Forster and Hornady dies a close second. The only die failure I have had is a Lee collet die for the 223. It was my fault, I put way too much pressure on the press and it stripped out the top of the die, which is made out of aluminum. I still like the Lee collet dies very much and still use them and will continue to use them into the future. With that said, I prefer other brands. I have lately, started to mix my die sets. For precision reloading I really like top of the line Redding or Forster for my seating dies, however, the top of the line RCBS seating die with a window in the side is very good too. For full length sizing dies, I am not so picky, but like CW said, it is very hard to beat RCBS for quality and service. I have Lee, RCBS, Redding and a few Hornady full length dies, depending on what the case is and what was available when I got the dies. If I can not get a Lee collet die for neck sizing, I get a "S" type die that takes bushings to size the neck with the majority being Redding. That is for precision reloading. A Redding "S" type die with a few bushings and a precision seater die gets a little pricey, but i spend a lot of time at the bench and consider it part of my shooting experience, so it is justified in my book. For general reloading I get full sets and back off the full length die 2 full turns to neck size. Again I buy different brands depending what the case is and what I can get at the time, some times Lee, but most times not. For pistol cases (straight walled) I will get sets of dies, but carbide (I really hate lubing and will avoid it when ever possible). I prefer Redding, RCBS, Hornady in that order for die sets in general. I have dealt with Lee and RCBS customer service, believe me they are in two different worlds. I have come to the point with Lee, if any thing goes wrong, just buy another or another brand, do not even try. RCBS on the other hand has cheerfully replaced MY boo-boo's, not even their fault. I have yet to deal with Hornady, Forster or Redding because I have not had a problem with any product, their fault or mine.

As far as which to use about expander balls, I do not own a 32 caliber or a rifle/pistol that takes a .310 - .312 bullet to know which is best. The advice given about expander ball size should to be followed, I would. For the most part these fellows know what they are talking about. We may disagree on what brand to use, but that is what keeps different companies in business. I have found, for the most part, you get what you pay for.

Other advice have been give here as well such as a Lee universal decapping die. I own one and every single case I reload goes through it. Maul it over, there are good reasons for them, unless you are going to be mass reloading on a progressive.

Good Luck and Good Shooting

wncchester · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2012, 01:15:10 PM »

"The only die failure I have had is a Lee collet die for the 223. It was my fault, I put way too much pressure on the press and it stripped out the top of the die, which is made out of aluminum."

Otto, just to pick a nit, that became a die problem but it wasn't a die failure. That soft aluminum top cap is designed to (safely) strip out and pop-up if excessive pressure is applied, it's to keep us from damaging the steel die body or breaking the press; works good too.

1armoured · « **Reply #19 on:** June 14, 2012, 02:08:16 PM »

I find the Redding 3 die sets to be the most practical and adjustable.
For a lifetime of use, paying a bit extra for good quality is no big deal.

I also have an old 2 die RCBS set in .22Hornet, given to me 2nd Hand,
it has loaded many thousands of rounds without a flaw,
but I find it a bit more fiddly adjusting the decapping spindle nut.

(and Hornady 2 die in .223 with universal .22 Seater,
and added the .22 NS neck die.(won't do my Hornet tho, you need the .22 SHORT neck die)
OK with the threaded spindle, but a bit fiddly as well.
Do NOT buy an older unthreaded spindle die, IMO, as they have a tendency to lose the whole decapper in the case.
I know from experience !!!

You can buy a new set of drop-in spindle and ball to replace though,
(but just adds to the pain !)

I also have a Lee factory crimp die for my Hornet. Does the job.
Light flat crimp, (I use to uniform bullet seating tension in the thin case), and you don't need a crimp grooved projectile.

cheers,
SS

ratdog · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:38:54 PM »

i use only lee i have had rcbs had trouble with those.have lee bullet molds cast real good and not so pricey.i have never broke a decaping pin on the lees different story on rcbs.i like lee's pistol molds.casted over 300 45 acps yesterday nice looking bullets.you don't need high priced stuff to reload.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 15, 2012, 12:37:34 AM »

Quote from: wncchester on June 13, 2012, 01:15:10 PM

"The only die failure I have had is a Lee collet die for the 223. It was my fault, I put way too much pressure on the press and it stripped out the top of the die, which is made out of aluminum."

Otto, just to pick a nit, that became a die problem but it wasn't a die failure. That soft aluminum top cap is designed to (safely) strip out and pop-up if excessive pressure is applied, it's to keep us from damaging the steel die body or breaking the press; works good too.

Failure or designed to strip out - pick your wording. OK - It was a designed failure that worked to perfection.

You could say the same thing about shear pins and aluminum framed Lee presses. Designed to break if too much pressure is applied.

helotaxi · « **Reply #22 on:** August 15, 2012, 05:07:55 PM »

The only Lee dies that I routinely use are the collet neck sizers. They make for very consistent neck tension and concentric/straight necks. I have them in station #1 on my 550 toolheads for every caliber that I load progressively. Almost all the other dies that I use are Forster. I own and I've used every brand of die other than Dillon but other than the few calibers that I load that Forster doesn't cut dies for, they mostly sit in the box in the cabinet over my loading bench.

All that said, as Stimpy mentioned, for the rifles the OP plans on loading for, Lee will serve him well.

Savage_99 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 16, 2012, 02:37:30 AM »

R.C.B.S. is my first choice. I have many dies and a few presses.

The Redding FL dies do not have an air bleed hole. They are far more likely to dent the shoulder on a sized case.

RCBS has that air bleed hole in their FL dies. I am not sure about the other brands.

Buy RCBS. They are the best company anyway.

wncchester · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2012, 03:15:14 AM »

Otto: "Failure or designed to strip out - pick your wording. OK - It was a designed failure that worked to perfection."

Your logic is basically equal to saying a fuse is defective if I put an excessive electrical load on it and the fuse blows out.

? Seems the fuse and Lee's soft alum die cap have "worked to perfection" and you consider it a design failure ... I can't quite wrap my head around that. Both devices are intended to prevent other damage so I recognise both events as operator error; a matter of personal perspective I suppose.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Savage: "... RCBS. They are the best company anyway."

That statement would be quite hard to prove.

Die lube bleed holes are mostly helpful for beginners. It may take FL sizing a couple hundred bottle neck case to learn how to lube necks/shoulders rightly/lightly; after learning that the bleed holes won't matter. And shoulder dents aren't harmful anyway.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Those wanting to cling to "my favorite brand of press and dies is best" should avoid concentricity gages. That device will quickly take the winds of delusion outta anyone's sails.

I've been doing this a very long time and know enough about the tools to say I don't have a 'first choice' of much of anything. I choose new tools according to the features I want and what I need to do. Emotional attachment to inanimate objects or companies doesn't mean a thing to me. NO maker is perfect, or even closer to perfect than any other so, on average, I know I can make quality ammo with any dies or presses on the market. Individual dies of all brands vary within SAAMI specs so, on average, the real limit to my ammo is my own skill and work methods.

Savage_99 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 23, 2012, 01:12:17 PM »

wncchester,

I have both Redding and Rcbs dies for the 270 WSM. I used the Redding FL die and a case with no lube on it's shoulder got a small dent from the Redding die.

Those dents do matter to me as they look bad.

I used the RCBS dies for the balance and there were no dents.

I take care when I handload and have been doing so since 1953.

It will be 60 years of handloading since 1953.

I still have my first press a Lyman Eze Loader along with a RCBS 2A and a RCBS Supreme.