Author Topic: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.  (Read 441 times)

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Offline powderman

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U.S. court strikes down EPA rule on coal pollution    A U.S. appeals court on Tuesday overturned a key Obama administration rule to reduce harmful emissions from coal-burning power plants, sparking a rally in coal company shares and relief among utility firms.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit said in a 2-1 decision that the Environmental Protection Agency had exceeded its mandate with the rule, which was to limit sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide emissions from power plants in 28 mostly Eastern states and Texas.

In the latest setback for the EPA, the court sent the Cross-State Air Pollution Rule back for revision, telling the agency to administer its existing Clean Air Interstate Rule - the Bush-era regulation that it was updating - in the interim. The EPA said it was reviewing the ruling.

The decision was cheered by some Republicans, who have made the EPA and President Barack Obama's environmental policies a major campaign theme ahead of November elections.

The agency is endangering a fragile economic recovery by saddling U.S. industries with costly new rules, Republicans say.

"The Obama-EPA continues to demonstrate that it will stop at nothing in its determination to kill coal," said Republican Senator James Inhofe, one of the Senate's most vocal EPA opponents. "With so much economic pain in store, it is fortunate that EPA was sent back to the drawing board."

Power groups, which had argued that they could not meet the timeframe or bear the financial burden of installing costly new equipment, welcomed the court's decision. The EPA had estimated it would cost $800 million annually from 2014.

"The court was clear in finding that EPA had overstepped its legal authority in developing the rule," said Scott Segal, director of the Electric Reliability Coordinating Council.

Coal company stocks, which have suffered this year as cheap natural gas undercut demand for coal from power companies, soared. Peabody Energy was 3.7 percent higher and Arch Coal rose 1.1 percent.

U.S. natural gas futures briefly fell more than 3 percent after the ruling's announcement as traders bet it would mean less demand for the cleaner fuel over the coming months. By midday, prices had recovered those losses.

But some analysts saw little material impact from the ruling, with dozens of coal-fired plants already slated for closure due to other EPA regulations.

"It gives the EPA a little bit more of a black eye," said Andrew Weissman, senior energy adviser at law firm Haynes and Boone, which advises power and gas sector clients.

"But in the bigger picture, it many not be important in terms of the practical consequences."

POLLUTION CONTROLS

The EPA's rule was designed to reduce sulfur dioxide emissions by 73 percent and nitrogen oxide by 54 percent at coal-fired power plants from 2005 levels, improving health for over 240 million people, according to the agency. The reasoning is that unhealthy emissions from those plants, pollutants that cause acid rain and smog, cross state lines.

Two of the three judges ruling on the case said the EPA had exceeded its "jurisdictional limits" in interpreting the Clean Air Act and imposed "massive emission reduction requirements" on upwind states.

"By doing so, EPA departed from its consistent prior approach to implementing the good neighbor provision and violated the (Clean Air Act)," Judge Brett Kavanaugh said in the court's opinion.

The rule, known as CSAPR, also established a cap-and-trade system that enabled power producers to comply with the emission limits by buying, trading and selling pollution permits.

Environmental market traders said they were "surprised and disappointed" by the ruling.

Power generators, such as Southern Co, had argued that the Jan. 1 implementation date was too soon to design and install the needed pollution control equipment.

Texas, along with the National Mining Association and the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, also challenged the EPA, arguing the rule would cause undue financial burden on power producers and force companies to shut some older plants.

"Vindicating the state's objections to EPA's aggressive and lawless approach, today's decision is an important victory for federalism and a rebuke to a federal bureaucracy run amok," said Greg Abbott, attorney general in Texas, where the power industry had warned that the rule could result in peak-season blackouts.

Democratic Senator Tom Carper, who authored bills to curb mercury, SOX and NOx emissions in previous years, said he would try to push for new legislation if an appeal failed.

EPA OVERREACH?

Segal of the Electric Reliability Coordinating Council said the CSAPR, along with other EPA rules, did not show sufficient respect or deference to state programs.

"Today's decision is a stern warning against EPA's recent views," he said.

Luke Popovich, a spokesman for the National Mining Association, hailed the ruling.

"This was not entirely surprising because it's the third or fourth ruling by a federal court that shows the EPA to be overriding the authority that the states have and conducting an unlawful regulatory program against coal," he said.

Environmental groups warned that the decision would put lives at risk and urged the EPA to appeal the decision.

"The court's decision significantly imperils long overdue clean air safeguards for millions of Americans," said Vickie Patton, general counsel of the Environmental Defense Fund.

Patton said the EPA should move in parallel to "swiftly put in place replacement protections" and to ask the three-judge panel and the full court to rehear the case.

John Walke, clean air director at the Natural Resources Defense Council, said the dissenting opinion of Judge Judith Rogers more accurately reflected the opinion of the court.

"The EPA can - and should - immediately appeal this decision. The dissenting judge correctly follows the Clean Air Act and prior rulings by this court. The majority opinion is an outlier at odds with the court's own rulings as well as the Clean Air Act," Walke said.

Judge Rogers said the other two judges were "trampling on this court's precedent on which the Environmental Protection Agency was entitled to rely in developing the Transport Rule rather than be blindsided by arguments raised for the first time in this court".

The appeals court had in June ruled 2-1 in favor of the EPA in a challenge to the agency's greenhouse gas regulations.



http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...8JL56020120821
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline magooch

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2012, 04:07:36 AM »
I know I wouldn't want to live downwind from a coal-fired power plant that has ineffective abatement systems on its stacks, but going without electricity might not be so pleasant either.  I also know that there are very effective precipitator systems that do a pretty good job on smoke stacks.
 
It is possible that coal might not be a viable long term power source, but are we able to economically replace it in the short term?  I don't think the right answer is for government to arbitrarily drive coal out.   
Swingem

Offline powderman

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 06:56:00 AM »
I've lost track of the hundreds of jobs lost in KY from the new regs put forth by the epa. It is doing everything it can to shut the coal industry down. All part of obummers plan to destroy us. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline briarpatch

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 09:48:49 AM »
When china and most favored nations are allowed to burn and use coal without any regulation it is BS to stop the US from using its resources and force the the tax payer to subsidise the world.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 10:15:18 AM »
We have an estimated 800 year supply of coal.  We have a 100 year supply of natural gas already tapped in the lower 48 with a 47 year supply tapped in Alaska.  We have an estimated additional 200 year supply of natural gas. 
 
They don't want us to use coal.
 
They don't want us to drill for more natural gas.
They will not allow a natural gas pipeline to be built via the Alaska highway and tie-into northern Canada's natural gas lines to bring the gas to the lower 48.
 
We have a 30,000 year supply, that's right 30,000 year supply of natural gas hydrates in the Burmada triangle.  Of course in the Burmada triangle we would have to share this supply with Burmada and the Bahamas and they are really going to use a lot.  The hyrates are not yet cost effective to mine.  HOWEVER, the Japanese have a huge natural gas hydrate field off the Japan trench and they are experimenting with some new vacuum type mining equipment to get these hydrates.  If effective, it would make Japan energy independent.  This technology could be used here to get our hydrates. 
 
Natural gas has far less carbon than coal or oil products.  It also has no sulfer content.  That being said, we can use our coal to make synthetic oil for diesel, gasoline, or plastics. 
 
WHY ARE WE IMPORTING AND SENDING BILLIONS TO COUNTRIES WHO DON'T REALLY LIKE US?
 
If we used our own, ALL they money spent on fuel and energy would STAY HERE and be SPENT HERE, thus bringing us out of the recession.  Most of our coal now goes overseas to Europe, China, Japan, and India. 
 
Off subject a little bit, but we sell logs to Japan, who in turn makes their own wood products to keep people employed.  We could cut off the log sales and say we have to sell them so much in finished products. 
 
We are giving the country away for no reason.  Why?  We could at least require that everything made for the military MUST be manufactured in the US. 

Offline DDZ

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 10:16:32 AM »
What a great plan Obama has. The demand for coal in the US will be reduced, and along with that will come lower prices for coal that other countries will be happy about. Reducing US coal consumption will not reduce world coal consumption. It will just shift consumption from us to other countries. Including other countries with electricity generating equipment that is old and unsophisticated compared to ours. So coal will be redirected from fairly clean US plants to dirty Asian plants.
The air will never be clean enough for the EPA. If it was deemed clean enough there would no longer be any use for the EPA, and we know they will never let that happen. Its like any other government bureaucracy, it has a desire to grow and become more intrusive.     
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline tobster

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 11:05:22 AM »
Another advantage of coal is it is safe to transport- ever hear of a residential area evacuated because of a train wreck that released a cloud of poisonous coal?

Offline SwampThing762

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 11:58:44 AM »
Obama, his eco-fascist sympathizers, and the EPA want us all driving windup electric cars, walking, or riding bicycles.    They dont want us riding horses, either -- horseapples leave a carbon footprint.

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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 02:38:21 AM »
Early environmentalists weren't radical.  Today, the communists/socialists/facists have taken over the environmental movement and use it to shut down America's industry, made a lot of it move overseas.  Free trade agreements, environmental legislation, unions, all lead to America's industry leaving the country.  Lots of early environmentalists were hunters and fishermen, just not wanting interferance with their hunting/fishing lands.  Today in America, water is cleaner than ever in the industrial age, the air is cleaner.  They just keep pushing the limit.  Industry started moving south in the 1960's to get out of union states to right to work states.  Later with the environmental and free trade agreements, some industry left the south. 

Offline Swampman

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 03:27:38 AM »
So much for the forest and streams.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2012, 06:19:05 AM »
Coal burning plants were cleaned up starting in the late 1970s.  Filters in the stacks cost, back then, about $30,000 each.  They were and have been improved ever since.  Air polution is not anywhere near as bad as it once was.  We have an 800 year supply of coal.  Why not use it and keep people working, they need jobs?  Rivers and streams are much much cleaner than they once were.  Most stream polution now comes from overfertilization of golf courses and suburban lawns, which overfertilizes streams and rivers not from any water run off of a coal plant.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2012, 06:40:17 AM »
I see MAJOR energy problems looming in the near future.  Natural gas has recently passed coal as the chief electricity producer.  Natural gas is cheap now because of all the well fracking that has delivered an abundant supply.  HOWEVER, MOST natural gas DRILLING has been stopped as has oil.  Oil and natural gas prices will start to rise next year as lack of drilling because of EPA regulations, will cause them to rise.  Also, we need more refineries, unless the EPA approves new refinery construction, which they haven't in recent years, that will also cause energy prices to rise.  Obama wanted $5 a gallon gas to FORCE people to buy hybrids and electrics, and golf cart sized cars.  He mentioned in his books that he wanted more people to move out of the suburbs and back into the cities where mass transit can be used and not cars.  He also mentioned, he wanted all coal fired power plants to shut down. 
 
Alternative fuels, solar, wind, are all wonderful, IF they provide jobs, and IF they are actually cost effective.  Right now, they are not. 
 
Also, we can't keep burning our corn for fuel, when we need to be feeding ourselves and our food animals, especially with droughts, too much rain in SE Asia, famine and wars in Africa, trumoil in the middle east, drought in Russia, too much rain in South America also, more mouths to feed, etc.  Stupid is as stupid does.
 
Utopia isn't possible, never has been, never will be, not in the sinful human condition.  America probably became closest than any nation on earth ever, but decided in the 1960's they didn't need God, sexual restraints, marriage norms, greed restraints, drug and alcohol restraints.  85% of healthcare problems are caused by what the Bible would call sin: sexual sin, greed, gluttony, self gradification, any excesses.  Our grandparents had thing right, and knew what they were doing.  They won WWII, they went to the Moon, they conquered many diseases, had a great middle class, almost got rid of STD's. 
 
My generation unleased a multitude of problems, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, STD's, kids raised by single parents, perverted sex, adultry, greed which caused women to go to work. All of which opened the door to all kinds of stresses, diseases, and problems.  Now the next generation is dependent on handouts, welfare, food stamps, having parties all the time. 
 
All I can say is pray and prep, tough times are coming.  We ain't seen nothing yet.  Romney might put on the brakes and slow it down, but don't know if he can turn it around.  With Obama, we will probably be over the cliff by the time he leaves office. 
 
We need revival in this country real bad.  We need about 200 Billy Grahams.  We need pastors who tell the truth, and call a spade a spade.  Who cares what denomination they are, just preach the truth and turn lives around, turn the country around. 

Offline Swampman

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 07:22:53 AM »
I'm not against using coal just the popular mining methods.  They are highly destructive and completely destroy a place that once existed.  That place can never be recreated once it's gone.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2012, 09:52:18 AM »
Most shallow coal has already been stripmined.  A lot of coal is now shaft mined.  Strip mines are ok, if they are immediately backfilled and replanted asap. 

Offline Swampman

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Re: U.S. court rules for America and coal industry, and against obamas epa.
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2012, 10:11:15 AM »
Most new mines involve ripping mountain tops off, and dumping them in the nearest trout stream.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~