Author Topic: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.  (Read 5946 times)

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Offline williamlayton

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #120 on: September 06, 2012, 01:08:51 PM »
Needlessly? I dare say that it was not needless. Stuff happens.
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TEXAS, by GOD

Offline finisher

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #121 on: September 06, 2012, 06:44:59 PM »
I have finally seen the video, and though brief as it is, I think that all the SPECULATION of how the officers should have approached is just that...speculation! The suspect "made " them as they approached. It happens and that's about all their is to say about that I think.


Hell, I can sniff out the stench of an off duty cop like a blood hound. It's not that hard. (they carry a certain body language and air of attitude).


Again, I say, I would have shot because I WANT TO LIVE!


All in all, what had to be done got done!


Could it have been handled better? After viewing the actual shooting portion of the incident, I'd say that one could get equal or even better shooting from an seizing epileptic.


It even appears that there was a brief pause by the cops  (as the suspect,  from what I see, did not just turn and point before they started shooting), perhaps to order the guy to drop the weapon. At least that's how I see it.


But seriously, even if suspect isn't "Quick Draw McGraw", just how long would you expect anyone to wait before firing when face to face with someone that you know has off'ed one person already?


MG, I'm not the biggest fan of cops either, but when your staring down the barrel of a gun, the only thing on your mind If you're not already frozen is "kill this guy". It's just that some have a better knack for such things than others.


The "what if" of my family or loved ones being hurt, you ask? Well sure I agree that both those cops are "urine" poor pistoleros, especially at urinating distance. But I'd really, more than anything, want to go up to the dead guy and stomp on his head a couple times for causing the situation in the first place.


You've got to understand that not everyone is a natural with a pistol and even those that are naturals on paper never truly know until that first sphincter puckering moment . And IT HAPPENS FAST.

The only thing one can fault these guys for isbeing a couple of spasmatics. It is just unrealistic to expect the kind of out come that I think you're looking for.


No one seems to ever have anything to say about the COST of training. And what about the difficulties of working with some of these goons. I'm sure plenty of you vets remember how many "rocks" there were in basic that got the whole company in trouble.


It's no different with cops. They're people, and people in general are FARRRR from perfect. Usually, I'm the one criticizing the cops here, but in this case, NY got about the best result they could hope for given the big picture of training, and ability.


A good handful of my high school buddies became cops, and none of them could ever be considered the sharpest tool in the shed. It is what it is and that's the pool from which the PD has to select. And those are just the ones that didn't get caught.

When I'm out in public, I avoid cops like the plague because they are targets. And when ever they're around, I keep my head on a swivel because you never know what the hell is going to happen. If your going to live in the big city, you've got to accept that reality or you'll end up another statistic one day.


Again, what had to be done was done and it was about as good an ending as a REALISTIC person could expect given the bigger picture of circumstances. Truthfully, I don't meet many realistic people these days. I think it's too much TV.

Offline Southern Sportsman

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #122 on: September 09, 2012, 05:40:33 AM »
The fans of the police would carry alot more weight with their retorts if ANY of them would have the giblets to address the blatant faults with the police actions listed by SEVERAL contributors here, instead of delving into What If's, and hurling insults when they cant pick apart the legitimate points of their adversaries!! This has turned from sad to morbidly funny. Sorry about the innocent bystanders and all but some of you guys are cracking me up with your selective "insights"! I changed my major from criminal justice to business BECAUSE of this BS double standard, and political correctness. No surprise. Hey MG, dont letem get ya down. These folks are like the anti gunners that have to be victimized by a criminal before they open their eyes. Let them actually need the fearless professionial police officers one time, and be let down themselves, or be made into a criminal for defending themselves, home, or family, and see how their attitude changes. REALLY funny how that tends to work out!! ::)    When that happens take notes on how many suddenly shift gears!

Offline Southern Sportsman

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #123 on: September 09, 2012, 05:48:55 AM »
And before ya say it, no I do not dislike police. I know some who are the salt of the earth, and unfortunatly others who are much bigger criminals than the ones they are supposed to chase. No fellas, I am simply a REALIST. Big difference. Too many of you are just scared to death to admit(even to yourselves) that the leos are not the end all be all of our community. Just HUMANS with authority, and all that implies. Of course we need them, but they need to be held accountable just like the rest of us. I said it before, but now I wanna ask all of our brethren here on this really cool site I only recently found, if it was a regular person, and circumstances were so that all else was equal exept for the badge, would these same folks be defending the civilians? In your heart of hearts, tell the truth!   10 impacts?? How many shots? What range? Even though they had the drop on him? And others.... Too many legitimate points too many are scared to address.

Offline BIGDAVE54

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #124 on: September 09, 2012, 06:54:18 AM »
 I can not say what I would have done except try to protect my life first and then my partners. People that are sane and rational can not say what they would do while working for Mike Bloomberg.Bloomberg is one of the more disgusting people that has raised to the top of the sewer that is NYC. This place is not American...it bans people from owning and carrying handguns. The police department wakes up every day and dreams that they will catch some innocent citizen with a handgun.Only the hogs that eat slop with Bloomberg get those privilages.I keep hoping one of the women he molests at work will blow his brains out sooner rather than later./BTW I was reading some sigs and ran across something the national scumbag Mitt Romney said.
  When I pray I pray to the one and only God...The God of Abraham...When Mitt Romney prays...he prays to a talking lizard...When Bloomberg the scummbag ends his evening,he simply sits on the bed and asks God if he has any questions for the next day.

Offline finisher

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #125 on: September 09, 2012, 06:01:40 PM »
Southern Sportsman: I tend to be a little harsh on LE, but I do agree that some...SOME... that I've met were stand up guys.


In response to your challenge to the others, I've already said what I think I would have done.  Although I can do it on paper all day, I have no way of knowing for sure that I could pull off the "Hollyweird" double tap to the head under those circumstances, I admit.

But even if I did; being a regular "Joe" civilian (in other words, little people), I'd bet all my chips that I'd be facing some kind of criminal charges regardless of a carry permit or what state.

To answer the question, given the outcome, absolutely not. They would not be defending "average Joe", only "average cop" (as we've read). In fact I think that they would be lamb basting any civilian, but certainly not officers "Epileptic Seizure" and "Spazola".

Offline Southern Sportsman

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #126 on: September 12, 2012, 04:21:04 AM »
Roger that sir! Sad that this is the situation in the "Land of the offended", and "Home of the politically correct" these days. But again, better for your family to be alive and you in jail that the alternative. BTW, ive mentioned it before, but all of yall out there take a gander at this link. www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?pagewanted=print  Will break your heart.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #127 on: September 12, 2012, 11:36:41 AM »
Police officers face an agonizing internal investigation after shots fired---if you didn't know that.
These two have been or will be in the same mode.
You do what you have to do at the time and deal with the results.
Often, you become the victim, if you stop and think. I didn't say it was a mindless encounter. I said you must react to training--sometimes it goes all wrong.
No one is a winner in a gunfight.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline m-g Willy

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #128 on: September 12, 2012, 11:44:20 AM »

No one is a winner in a gunfight.
Blessings

I'd say the one with no holes in thier hide would be the winner. ;)

Offline Southern Sportsman

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #129 on: September 13, 2012, 09:54:45 AM »
Hopefully the agonizing investigation will end with the removal of the right to carry a gun for these two (I still cant get over this) "senior officers", and not let the victims rights,  pain, and suffering be swept under the rug, which is what I expect to happen. Anyone out there able to find out anything on that? And STILL no response to my challenge........ No problem. Silence says volumes......... ;)  What part of the training curriculum calls for spray and pray into a crowd of people by the way?   
 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #130 on: September 18, 2012, 08:38:19 AM »
[

I heard that Wal-mart dosen't chase until the cost of the theft exceeds a certinan value. I would think murder is a high enough value to go after the guy .

So which is worse.
(1) Letting a murderer get away
(2)Shooting one innocent person.

Depends really and nither you , I or the cops knew what the guy with the gun would/was going to do. So it may be contray to you opinion but they may have made the correct decision. Can you honestly say the guy was not already getting ready to shoot as the police officers came up on him ?
As for your ? in general , If a mass murder can be stopped by sacrifcing an innocent life would it not be a good decision ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline BBF

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #131 on: September 18, 2012, 09:03:29 AM »
[

I heard that Wal-mart dosen't chase until the cost of the theft exceeds a certinan value. I would think murder is a high enough value to go after the guy .

So which is worse.
(1) Letting a murderer get away
(2)Shooting one innocent person.

.............., If a mass murder can be stopped by sacrifcing an innocent life would it not be a good decision ?

NEVER !!
 
 It was common in England and other countries during the middle ages and somewhat beyond that they rather hung ten innocents than letting one guilty go free. Thankfully we have gone past that.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #132 on: September 18, 2012, 09:09:49 AM »
You compare apples and oranges . It makes little sense in this case.
I have to ask , if you can shoot a bad guy in the process of killing people with intent to keep doing so and there are innocent people behind him you would not take a shot in an effort to stop him from shooting more people ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline williamlayton

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #133 on: September 18, 2012, 09:30:25 AM »
I am pretty sure the people behind the cops are grateful the BG didn't get off any shots.
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TEXAS, by GOD

Offline m-g Willy

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #134 on: September 18, 2012, 11:03:05 AM »
You compare apples and oranges . It makes little sense in this case.
I have to ask , if you can shoot a bad guy in the process of killing people with intent to keep doing so and there are innocent people behind him you would not take a shot in an effort to stop him from shooting more people ?
The shooter knew the victim.
The shooter planned the murder and carried it out.
 He killed the victim he intended to.
The shooter walked away .
The shooter showed no threat to anyone on the street.
Where do you get the idea that he was a mass murderer?
What evidence do you have that the shooter had intentions of shooting anyone else?
 
 
 

Offline m-g Willy

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #135 on: September 18, 2012, 11:05:46 AM »
 
[]
 
As for your ? in general , If a mass murder can be stopped by sacrifcing an innocent life would it not be a good decision ?

What if the innocent life being sacrificed is your's , or your wife or your child?
 
 
 

Offline m-g Willy

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #136 on: September 18, 2012, 11:06:52 AM »
I am pretty sure the people behind the cops are grateful the BG didn't get off any shots.
Blessings

And I bet that there are nine people that wish the cops didn't get off any shots!

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: All 9 wounded in Empire shooting were shot by police. Great shooting guys.
« Reply #137 on: September 19, 2012, 01:54:12 AM »
You compare apples and oranges . It makes little sense in this case.
I have to ask , if you can shoot a bad guy in the process of killing people with intent to keep doing so and there are innocent people behind him you would not take a shot in an effort to stop him from shooting more people ?
The shooter knew the victim.yes
The shooter planned the murder and carried it out.yes
 He killed the victim he intended to.seems so
The shooter walked away .fled the scene would better decribe his action
The shooter showed no threat to anyone on the street.although you might not consider holding a handgun in public in  a city that forbids private citizens for having a gun not a threat MOST WOULD !
Where do you get the idea that he was a mass murderer?where did you get the idea I was calling the shooter the police shot a mass muderer ? Though nither you nor anyone else knew his thoughts before the shooting .
What evidence do you have that the shooter had intentions of shooting anyone else?I don't and if you read real slow you will notice in my post I never said any of the stuff you stated with regard to the shooter in the NY shooting. I was posting a response to the NEVER commit you made which had nothing to do with the 9 shot in NY either unless hanging Englishmen years ago provoked the shooter some how but it would be a streach nopw wouldn't it ?
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