Author Topic: White Oak ?? (Read 1279 times)

Calamity Jane · « **on:** August 22, 2003, 12:31:37 PM »

White Oak was recommended as the best material fer cannon carriages.

Whal, today waz slack at werk (waitin fer a new job assignment), so I decided to go on the hunt fer the White Oak fer me 1/3 scale 6-pounder. After a whole day's Net surfin 'n' phone-callin, I learned a bunch of stuff that some of ya might know - I DIDN'T. Anybody startin out probably don't neither! So I'll share me experience (not that anybody else has been readin this Board, but then I talk to meself anyway :-D )

Fer my carriage I needed 2 pcs. 11.5x4x1", 1 piece 4x4x36", 'n' 1 piece 4x4x16"

I phoned me local hardwood dealers last week 'n' nobody had anythang 'n' nobody had access to anythang that thick/big so todayI hit the Net.

Whal, I found some suppliers who had "4/4" 'n' "2/6" White Oak 'n' their site said dimensions waz "to the nearest inch". When I got on the phone ta order some, I found out hardwood dimensions are given in "quarters" (i.e. 1/4"), so a "4/4" is actually 1" square!

I mustta gone thru every hardwood supplier in N.A. 'n' found NOBODY has White Oak in large pieces (unless ya wanna buy a whole log!)

Finally, I started lookin fer where the professional cannon makers get their large pieces of Oak 'n' I found out that they don't - they LAMINATE! :shock:

Yup, makes sense.

Turns out that large pieces of Oak don't dry properly, have a tendancy to split, and aren't as strong as laminated Oak.

So, if yer jist startin out with cannon-buildin, don't waste yer time like I did - start from the beginning knowin yer gonna haffta laminate!

Calamity (who's now gotta figger out how ta get time ta go down ta pick out her White Oak boards) Jane

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2003, 03:16:49 PM »

On the other hand, with proper selection of wood, the larger pieces can be cut/stacked/and dried successfully. Yes, they do tend to split. (On mortars you often will see bolts going through to keep the splits from being detrimental).

The best source often is a LOCAL saw mill, air drying for a year or so (and longer inside if it's going to be a piece of fine furnature in the home).

But then, alternating colors, or a thin strip of walnut here and there could produce a mighty pretty carriage!

Double D · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2003, 04:23:38 PM »

I may have some of what you need CJ just after Labor Day...I will sell it to you reasonable, all you have to do is pay freight for green white oak from VA to MB or SN or where ever in the far frozen north you are.

CW, carriages and mortar beds were painted!

How was the big city?

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #3 on:** August 25, 2003, 02:59:25 AM »

I'z read about the proper drying procedure fer Oak 'n' I think I'm better off to laminate dry Oak.

From what I'z read, they usually air-dry from 1 to 5 years down to a certain % moisture, then kild dry to the final % - don't remember the numbers. It's a long process.

Thanks fer the offer though. I have two white oak logs sitting in my north field that have been laying there for 3 summers now. I cut them from the front of my property before the bulldozers came to widen the road. Knowing what I know now, I am going to skid them up to the shop and take better care of them! There's also a coupla of nice Cedar logs there. I have a friend who has a homke-made Woodmiser saw and I think I'll get these logs quartered.

Calam

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #4 on:** August 25, 2003, 02:12:25 PM »

DD-

Spent the week near Minneapolis (Champlin, MN) with some folks in our company's sister company (we make motors they make fan trays).
Great time. Saw lots of relatives and friends in Minneapolis and in Iowa. Brought back some black angus - corn fed - ribeye too.

It was fun showing the design (and piece in the GB caliber) of the mortars to the engineers I was working with. Came back with a set of plans for a compressed air powered spud gun too.

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** September 10, 2003, 11:30:14 AM »

My son had a some trees taken down in his front yard. One was a big white oak that was straight for 25 feet and 24 inches in the butt. I took an 8 foot log and had it cut for lumber. Got the lumber today from the sawmill. I got;

6-2"x12"x 8'
3-2"x8"x8'
1-1"x8"x8'
1-2"x14"x8'

anybody need any white oak for carriage work, let me know. The price will be right, it's the freight that will break you!

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #6 on:** September 11, 2003, 05:20:33 AM »

NICE!

Make sure ya seal the ends 'n' dry that stuff REAL slow! Ya'll end up with some BOOOOTIFUL wood (in about 3 to 5 years)!

CJ

Calamity Jane · « **Reply #7 on:** September 16, 2003, 01:20:39 PM »

Now I unnerstand why the fixation with White Oak fer a carriage!

My axle shaft is a 1/2" rod that runs right thru a laminate of 3 oak boards. To keep it from shifting or rotating, I welded a tab to the shaft 'n' went to chisel a notch in the oak to accept the tab.

For most other woods I have worked with (including hardwoods), you can chisel the perimeter of the recess and "split out" the chunk in the middle. Whal, white oak don't "split" worth a darn! Even on the grain, I had ta chisel the whole piece out.

Now I unnerstand!

It don't got much of a purdy grain - awful drab - so instead of staining it and givin it a clear coat, it's gonna get painted the proper color

Thanks fer bein pushy 'bout white oak - I appreciate the strength and split-resistance!

Calam

Daveinthebush · « **Reply #8 on:** September 16, 2003, 02:04:15 PM »

You might try calling other places. Like the mills directly. I can get here in Alaska, 2" oak, hickory and others. I have some 8" x 8" ironwood comming in next week.

I think your problem in your looking in all the wrong places.

The air drying is the most important. In the three directions that the wood will shrink, the length will shrink the most. And as already mentioned you will get some splitting on the ends no matter what.

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** September 19, 2003, 05:04:29 PM »

What I am looking for is a supplier of white oak, preferably an Internet listed supplier. I am looking for a supplier that a hobbyist can contact for wood. Just enough wood to do their project.

Sometimes there just aren't any sawmills or white oak trees around. Like when I lived in Montana, the nearest tree was probably 40 miles away, let alone finding a sawmill.

But you bring up an interesting point, alternative suppliers.

You can go to one of the steel suppliers listed in the resource post and pay for a piece of steel, but sometimes if you visit machine shops or scrap yards you can find what you want much more reasonably.

As Calamity has found out the folks that are building the real thing are laminating. But they aren't laminating a bunch of 1 by's they are laminating structural sizes 2 by and 4 by. For our model work laminating 1 by will work. If you have visited any of the National Parks or museums and seen any of the old original guns, one of the first things you will notice is that the original carriages are laminated. So it's not any thing new. Although Ill bet the old ones didn't use any fancy epoxy glues.

The log I just had sawed gave me roughly 152 board feet of lumber. There is a sawmill in Connecticut that sells white oak lumber, Random length and width. Harris Woodworking

They list white oak 2 inch 100 plus bdft for $5.16 a bdft. That makes my little pile of wood worth $784. It cost me $40 to have the log hauled over to the sawmill. I had the local towtruck driver haul it. The sawmill charged me $30 to cut the log. I'm in it $70. I also had them cut the wood a true 2 inch thick and not lumber 2 inch. I didn't inquire of the sawmill what he would have sold the lumber to me for. Using the alternative source to buying the finshed product I saved a great deal on money.

Now if I were out in the wilds of Montana I would have had to buy the wood from a lumber yard. When I go back in a couple of years, I will take this wood with me. I will have plenty of wood to carry me through retirement.

DaveintheBush has a great idea about checking the sawmills. Calamity has a great idea about laminating.

I have been meaning to contact Harris Woodworking to see if they do Mail order. If they do, I am going to add them to the resource list as a source of white oak lumber.