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Offline Mike in Virginia

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bowhunter in the news
« on: September 17, 2012, 07:02:53 AM »
From Fox news:
. . . bowhunter in Idaho who had shot an elk the night before and was tracking it  by a trail of blood found his quarry - and a grizzly bear that was claiming the  dead animal.
The unidentified man was bitten on the shoulder by the ferocious bear near  Sheridan Creek, west of Shotgun, in Clark County, according to an Idaho  Department of Fish and Game report. He and his hunting partner, who were not  carrying guns or bear repellant, were following the elk’s blood trail when they  saw the grizzly bear's tracks. They came face-to-face with the bear when they  found the carcass of the bull elk, according to the Island Park News.
The bear charged them, according to the report, biting one hunter on the  shoulder before running back to guard the carcass. The hunters fled, hiking four  miles out of the wilderness before driving to the Ashton Medical Clinic, where  the hunter was treated for minor injuries and released.
The victim is from Michigan and was described as an experienced bowhunter,  according to the report. The state agency and the United States Forest Service  are investigating the encounter.
Idaho officials said that because the bear appeared to only defend its food  and did not act more aggressively, they will not send agents to investigate the  scene until the bear has had a chance to consume the carcass, said Gregg  Losinski, IDFG Regional Conservation Educator.
My opinion:  I say good for the bear.  There is the very reason I stopped bowhunting.  Not that a grizzly is likely to chomp on me here in Virginia, but bows wound as often as they kill, if not moreso.  An arrow projected at an animal is a very primitive way of taking game.  A challenge?  For sure.  But IMO, the results are too often disasterous for the animal sought.  It lingers in pain and confusion until it dies.  Been there done that, way too many times.  Although I've never waited overnight to trail my injured conquest, I have often followed the blood and bile to the pitiful creature that died in a most horrific manner.  I've heard the bleet of deer in mortal pain.  I've seen the blood splashed across the leaves and logs in the huge amounts a forensic examiner might see at a crime scene.  The animal tries desperately to escape the agony it cannot understand.  If I had a sick and dying, favored and loved dog, I wouldn't end his life with an arrow.  I'd use a bullet or a vet. 
The older I get, the more I hope bowhunting will someday be outlawed.  We ain't who our ancestors were.  We have better ways to dispatch game.  I love venison and wild game on the table as much as any man alive, but in my remaining years upon the earth I will take them as decently and quickly as possible.  With a gun.  A big gun.  A 45/70.  I want it to drop on impact of the bullet and expire without having time to be afraid or confused or in pain. 
What about you?  There are those who say a sharp broadhead will hurt a deer less than anything else that might cause it's demise.  I myself have shot arrows through a deer lungs, only to watch it keep feeding on grass or acorns.  But such is not the average kill with a bow.  No matter how good you think you are with your recurve or compound, you will  sometime shoot one through the guts or the muscles of it's front shoulders.  I know gun hunters sometime screw up and make gut shots, but with bowhunters it's far more frequent.  It's like the old saying goes, take enough gun.       
 
 
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Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/09/17/bowhunters-tracking-wounded-elk-attacked-by-grizzly/?test=latestnews#ixzz26kKilGjo

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 09:47:10 AM »
I don't bowhunt much, mostly because the woods are no fun in September in NC - too hot, too many bugs, can't see much. That, and I've an ancient PSE and I'm not comfortable past about 25 yards. On the plus side, I did kill the only deer I ever shot at with it (though it took more than one arrow... hit spine)

Muzzleloading in two weeks!!!
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 10:15:41 AM »
Yellowtail, you are so right.  Muzzleloading season is upon us!  I can't wait.  Ain't many animals that can stand up against a big bullet from a .50 caliber.  Nice efficient, effective harvest.  And the game is not running hither and yon all stirred up by the gun hunters yet.  Weather is cool, flies and bugs are gone, not too cold nor too hot, the perfect time to be in the woods or on the plains.  I'm excited.   

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2012, 12:44:19 PM »
Greg Losinski needs to find a new career.
 
The fact him and his buddies could not operate a bow effectively enough to routinely and humanly take big game is a reflection on himself and not bowhunting in general. The inflamitory rhetoric alone is enough to fire him.
 
 I can only hope Idaho sportsman turn the heat up on this sheep in wolfs clothing.
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Offline lakota

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2012, 02:09:57 PM »
lets outlaw bow hunting...when thats done we can take down gun hunting. For an encore we can kiss fishing goodbye too!

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Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2012, 03:41:00 PM »
Mike, you must have some pretty chitty bowhunters in your part of the world, but I doubt they would agree with your assessment. Maybe if you weren't taking poor shots on questionable angles you wouldn't have experienced the results you did.
It lingers in pain and confusion? ...be afraid or confused in pain? ...good for the bear? I smell a card-carrying PETA member.
Never having experienced this myself, what do you think a deer "feels" with a couple hundred grains of lead creating massive hydrostatic shock slamming into it. Notice I said it not "him" or "her".
BTW, unless you spine shoot them, good luck dropping a deer on the spot with a 45-70 every time.
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Offline Mike in Virginia

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 08:15:17 AM »
Let's not get ugly huntmup. 

Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 01:12:01 PM »
 :o
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 05:44:10 PM »
IF you put the arrow in the right place and use a proper broadhead the bow kills as quickly and effectively as firearms.

Problem is a whole lotta folks who go bow hunting do not have the skill and proficiency to do that and a whole lot more don't use proper broadheads. Because of my shoulders I can no longer pull a bow so haven't bow hunted in a lot of years but over all I believe my bow kills dropped closer to the point at which they were shot than the average of all my rifle kills. Honestly my handgun kills on average fell a lot closer to the point at which I shot them than those taken with bow, shotgun or rifle. Dunno why just stating what my personal experiences are.


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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2012, 07:00:22 PM »
IF you put the arrow in the right place and use a proper broadhead the bow kills as quickly and effectively as firearms.

Problem is a whole lotta folks who go bow hunting do not have the skill and proficiency to do that and a whole lot more don't use proper broadheads. Because of my shoulders I can no longer pull a bow so haven't bow hunted in a lot of years but over all I believe my bow kills dropped closer to the point at which they were shot than the average of all my rifle kills. Honestly my handgun kills on average fell a lot closer to the point at which I shot them than those taken with bow, shotgun or rifle. Dunno why just stating what my personal experiences are.

 I don't doubt your experiences for a second. My bow kills have been scary fast. With well over twenty deer killed I can think of two that were liver shot that were not dead within minutes. I have shot two deer I did not recover and presume to have died. It is not something I am particularly proud of, but it happened. I learned something both times. A bowhunter needs both skill and discipline to take high percentage shots and be very willing to go home empty handed if that "chip shot" does not present itself.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2012, 05:44:06 AM »
I've made two bow kills on liver shots. One dropped within 75 yards and the other perhaps went twice as far. The one that went the longer distance was also the longest bow kill I've ever made.


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Offline DDZ

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 11:45:06 AM »
I don't bow hunt, but I've seen the holes a good broadhead leaves in a deer. The wound channel is bigger than any I've seen with a rifle. I agree a deer can be dispatched very quickly with a bow. I also agree the problem lies with people archery hunting that don't take the proper time to be well practiced. I know guys that will shoot a dozen arrows before the season comes in then head to the tree stand. Some don't even do that. Archery hunting takes much more skill than shooting a scoped rifle. I have seen deer running around with arrows sticking out of them in rifle season. I have also got deer with broadheads stuck in them and festering wounds. The majority of the time I figure its from bow hunters that take bad shots, or have not practiced enough to place a killing shot on a deer. It ain't the archery equipment that is the problem, its some of the people that don't know how to use it.
I would like to hunt archery, but never had or wanted to take the time to practice. Anyway I love flintlock season, and want to save my tag for that.     
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Offline KIMBER45

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2012, 11:14:15 PM »
It never fails to amaze me as to how fast an animal can bleed out when hit with a properly placed broadhead. I also limit my shots to no more than 25 yds. and only take broadside shots. I have been after a really nice whitetail buck for 3 years. He has not presented me with the right angle or distance so he is still out there. Maybe this year.
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Offline lakota

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2012, 01:35:08 AM »
And use a real broadhead-a cut on contact broadhead. Leave the mechanical broadheads to the jerks that host TV shows sponsored by them.
I've read enough bad things about mechanical broadheads failing to never want to use one.
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Offline KIMBER45

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2012, 09:31:54 AM »
And use a real broadhead-a cut on contact broadhead. Leave the mechanical broadheads to the jerks that host TV shows sponsored by them.
I've read enough bad things about mechanical broadheads failing to never want to use one.
Mechanical broadheads need alot of energy to open. They are ideal for crossbows or bows shooting over 60lbs. The problem with fixed blades is they tend to plane. I use the fixed and only shoot 25yds. or inner.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
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Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
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Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
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Offline lakota

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2012, 02:42:09 PM »
I shoot old fasioned Zwickey Eskimos and I get great flight and like you I keep shots inside 25 yards. I think shooting at deer much farther out than that is risky. Bows arent super fast weapons and the animal could "jump the string" at longer distances and you could get a marginal hit even though you may have been perfect form wise for shooting at an inanimate stationary target.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2012, 02:51:29 PM »
practice - practice - practice


gun-bow-spear-spitball


if you're not dedicated enough to
practice any method , stay at home!
18 MINUTES.  . . . . . .

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 03:12:52 PM »
And use a real broadhead-a cut on contact broadhead. Leave the mechanical broadheads to the jerks that host TV shows sponsored by them.
I've read enough bad things about mechanical broadheads failing to never want to use one.
Mechanical broadheads need alot of energy to open. They are ideal for crossbows or bows shooting over 60lbs. The problem with fixed blades is they tend to plane. I use the fixed and only shoot 25yds. or inner.
yeah... my old PSE is about just under 55 pounds, and I can't shoot as tight with broadheads as fieldpoints. I tried the mechanicals, and they did fly a little straighter. The only deer I killed (or shot at) fell to el cheapo broadheads.
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Offline Lonegun1894

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2012, 11:11:50 AM »
I bowhunt, but limit my shots to close range and either broadside or quartering slightly away.  I also use handguns, and muzzleloaders, and modern rifles and shotguns.  It isn't the tool used, but being good enough and disciplined enough with the tool in your hands to make it work well.  Any of them will work exceptionally well when the placement is correct, or fail horribly if it isn't.  It's up to all of us to be brutally honest with ourselves to know if we do or do not have any business hunting with a particular tool.  I know one man who has literally sold off all his guns and hunts with nothing but a recurve.  He limits his shots to what he feels is a comfortable and ethical range, but can hit a gatorade bottle cap with his bow EVERY TIME out to 65yds.  He also brought his bow dove hunting with a group of us several times.  We started out poking fun at him, but quit laughing when we realized half way through that he got his limit before any of the rest of us, and he was using a bow while the rest of us were using shotguns.  The man practices every day, and has done so for the last 30 yrs, and it shows.  He is now retired as of about 6-7 years ago, and still hunts this way as of the last time I heard from him about 6 months ago.  I would like to be that good with a bow, but I dont have the time or dedication to use nothing but  abow like he does.  And to be honest, I have way too much fun playing with various guns to ever pick just one, weather gun or bow, and sell off the rest like he did to be able to come close to his skill level.

Offline Anna

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2012, 01:37:11 PM »
Bummer , I was just exploring the use of a Mathews so I could take up this sport on antelope .
But I am by far not that good a shot with a bow and I hate to see my game suffer .
I do wish however that these states would consiter a metallic cartridge loaded with black powder for your standard black powder hunting . Mussle loading is fine , but a good sharps rifle is so cool and the entire sight thing with one of them is first class ! 

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2012, 02:28:42 PM »
Bummer , I was just exploring the use of a Mathews so I could take up this sport on antelope .
But I am by far not that good a shot with a bow and I hate to see my game suffer .
I do wish however that these states would consiter a metallic cartridge loaded with black powder for your standard black powder hunting . Mussle loading is fine , but a good sharps rifle is so cool and the entire sight thing with one of them is first class !
Well by golly he talked another person out of becoming a bowhunter. Between limiting your range and practicing you might be better than you think. However, if you are not up to the task it is better to bow out with honor.
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Offline Land_Owner

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 02:15:48 AM »
When I was 15, we were bowhunting and terrorizing the local rabbits with wooden target arrows.  One of us shot an arrow that hit a branch, ricochetted up, and came straight down into the dirt.  That arrow just stood there like a beacon asking for it.  So I proclaimed that I was going to "split that arrow" and proceeded to do it from 25 yards.  I raised my arms in celebration, hung up my bow right then, and never went back to shooting arrows.  One in a million shot and I get to relive it forever or at least as long as my half-heimers will allow.

Now I use a .270 caliber 150 grain Nosler Partition at slightly over 2,500 fps to impart hydrodynamic shock from not greater than 225 yards and rarely have to track the hog or deer.  Partitions get it done and I never worry that the meat will be tainted by the primordial soup of chemistry as the fight or flight response of a mortally wounded animal pumps adrenalin into its veins.

Offline Anna

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2012, 05:00:10 AM »
Bummer , I was just exploring the use of a Mathews so I could take up this sport on antelope .
But I am by far not that good a shot with a bow and I hate to see my game suffer .
I do wish however that these states would consiter a metallic cartridge loaded with black powder for your standard black powder hunting . Mussle loading is fine , but a good sharps rifle is so cool and the entire sight thing with one of them is first class !
Well by golly he talked another person out of becoming a bowhunter. Between limiting your range and practicing you might be better than you think. However, if you are not up to the task it is better to bow out with honor.


No he didn't talk me out of it , but I am by far no Katniss Everdeen .  And I do see the need for a lot of training and practice before I would ever consiter myself a hunter with a bow .
But in all fairness,hunting with a high powered rifle also required the same thing before I was allowed
to go into the field with one .  Fishing was a little differant , but as far as on the water safety , knowing how to swim , and being careful with a fillet knife it's all still about training .

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: bowhunter in the news
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2012, 10:32:36 AM »
IF you put the arrow in the right place and use a proper broadhead the bow kills as quickly and effectively as firearms.

Problem is a whole lotta folks who go bow hunting do not have the skill and proficiency to do that and a whole lot more don't use proper broadheads. Because of my shoulders I can no longer pull a bow so haven't bow hunted in a lot of years but over all I believe my bow kills dropped closer to the point at which they were shot than the average of all my rifle kills. Honestly my handgun kills on average fell a lot closer to the point at which I shot them than those taken with bow, shotgun or rifle. Dunno why just stating what my personal experiences are.
+1on skill.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !