.22 Centrefires

[1armoured]

I have owned over the years various, .22Hornet, .222, .223 and .220 Swift, and seen many others performing as well.
A .22PPC would be nice to shoot, IMO, as would a Fireball.
A .22/250 probably a bit more practical than the Swift.
I still shoot the Hornet and the .222. Pretty much close to each other, at around 3,000fps with the 40gr pill, but both a pleasure and fun to shoot and reload for.


I found the Swift a bit over-kill, over-powder, and over meat damage.
Wasn't over impressed with the .223 compared to my other 2, so passed it on to my son.


Surprised me how accurate the little Hornet could be,esp my Savage Model 40, even though it's a bit of a pain single loading into the cone breech.
From advice gleaned from various sources on the Net, I have switched to Lil'Gun powder, and Small Pistol primers,
(and use a lee factory crimp die, when I've a mind to.)
Still not sure whether the crimp makes that much difference in all situations, bullet and brass wise. Maybe some !


Just been out, shot the .22's and tested some Hornet crimp, in what I deduce to be the best brass available, RWS.
A bit inconclusive, certainly with the 40gr Nosler BT's, but maybe a bit better with the Sako 45gr FMJ, which have a crimp groove.


I think the difference would manifest itself a bit more with thinner, inconsistent necks,
as the problem is consistent neck seating tension with the thin Hornet brass.
(The RWS has thicker, more consistent brass !, but then again, holds a little less powder than say the RP)


I acquired a box of old Sako 45gr FMJ projectiles for a bit of fun shoot. Unusual little bullet, probably to minimise meat and pelt damage on any varmint Russians ! 
They've a smooth crimping groove.
Interested to see how they would go compared to my favourite 40gr Nosler BT's.
Not as good. The crimped group showed a bit more promise, but with one wide !
Could have been me, as I'm no benchrester, and neither are my sporting rifles.


Some pics; show not much between crimped and not in Hornet, or my .22H and .222 grouping with the 40gr Ballistic tips, at 100yds.
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cheers,
SS

[Raptor]

Yes, .22 is a injoyable caliber to shoot, and with the new V-Max's out there in both the rim (.22Mag) and center-fire I
believe they are giving us better accuracy now then we ever seen before.

[tuck2]

I have a Kimber Mdl 82 22 Hornet rifle but since getting a 221 Fireball rifle the Hornet stays at home. The Hornet is not at all liked by me .The long tapered thin case was developed years ago and is harder to get accurate reloads out of them than moderen cases. Reloader somewhat over come some of the problems by having their Hornets rechambered to the more modern K Hornet. I still reload ammo for the 221 Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, and 220 Swift rifles. Now that a person can get a 221 Fireball I could not tell someone to get a new 22 Hornet rifle. But I will be getting the new Hornady 17 Hornet rifle.  The brass is thicker,and not tapered like the old 22 Hornet cases. Please dont tell me about how to get accurate reloads out of the old Hornet. I started reloading ammo in 1949 and any time I found info about reloading the Hornet I gave it a try. For prairie dog shooting I wont a cartradge that is known its accuracy.

[cjclemens]

I've always been a fan of small-bore rifles.  I don't have many over .243 and most are .22 centerfires.  I have a newer ruger 77/22 Hornet that is a blast to shoot.  With 296 powder and Hornady 40 grain Vmax bullets, it shoots sub-MOA groups at 100 yards all day long.  I've always given my cases a very light crimp after loading just as a matter of habit.  I mostly use Winchester brass, so I'm assuming it's as thin as it can be at the neck, anyway.  If you understand the 22 Hornet for what it is, it'll be your new best friend for dealing with varmints.  If you try to load it hot and push as much velocity out of it as you can, you'll find nothing but disappointment and frustration.

As a side note, 22 centerfires are my favorite group of cartridges of all time.  My collection of old .222's see more use than any of my other rifles.  My 22 Hornets are usually found leaning in the barn door or just inside the front door, in case I need to dispatch a wandering varmint.  I don't think the bigger 22's are overkill, either - my 22-250 is my go-to rifle for those well-educated late winter coyotes, that get tough to call in close.

[1armoured]

I have a Kimber Mdl 82 22 Hornet rifle but since getting a 221 Fireball rifle the Hornet stays at home. The Hornet is not at all liked by me .The long tapered thin case was developed years ago and is harder to get accurate reloads out of them than moderen cases. Reloader somewhat over come some of the problems by having their Hornets rechambered to the more modern K Hornet. I still reload ammo for the 221 Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem, and 220 Swift rifles. Now that a person can get a 221 Fireball I could not tell someone to get a new 22 Hornet rifle. But I will be getting the new Hornady 17 Hornet rifle.  The brass is thicker,and not tapered like the old 22 Hornet cases. Please dont tell me about how to get accurate reloads out of the old Hornet. I started reloading ammo in 1949 and any time I found info about reloading the Hornet I gave it a try. For prairie dog shooting I wont a cartradge that is known its accuracy.

I too like the concept of a mini .222/223 in the .221 fireball.


Interesting comments about the Hornet, tuck,


what would you consider an accurate load for Prairie Dogs,
and at what distances ?


I've found my Hornets good enough out to 200mtrs (220yds)
Haven't had the opportunity to shoot any further, but the drop would be starting to get a bit horrendous, besides any wind blow.


I'm no great fan of the K,
why mess with a fun cartridge as is ?
Plenty of other .22 centrefires about !


I like the idea of the .17 Hornet of Hornadys.
That looks like another fun cartridge in the making.


cheers,
SS

[swifty22]

Have owned a Swift since 1972, Have had 4 and will NEVER be without one. My current (old 77-V) with a 12x Luepold is by my desk and is pretty much strictly used for Coyotes. I use max book loads  of H414 and 50 gr V Max. Sighted +2" at 200 yds you better KNOW the dog is at 375 or better before you hold off hair! I did take her out on Mem. Day weekend and shot a dozen or so Rockchucks, It works. Have had several 223's a 204, a 17 Rem. and a couple of HMR's but the Swift is the best of all. I have shot a few Hornet's and was very impressed by it as to accuracy, report and traj. The cost of components is not as cheap as one would think (other than powder) but it won't eat a barrel like a Swift will in a couple of days (did it in MT shootin' gophers, was FUN!) no matter how hot you get it, but neither will a 223 or the 204. My 2C-Muddy     

[tuck2]

1armoured:  I like my centerfire prairie dog rifles to shoot 3/4 inch or less five shot 100 yard groups off a bench rest. I never got a reload to shot that small a group from my 22 Hornet.  P dog pups are about a 2X5 inch target . A rifle shooting one inch groups  at 100 yards will be two inch groups at 200 yards.  So I would only use the Hornet for shots out to about 150 yards. For spring prairie dog pup shooting when there a lot of shots under 150 yards I like using a low muzzle blast 17 HM2 and 17 HMR  Cooper 57 M LVT rimfire rifles. For shots over 150 yards I switch over to a 17 Fireball ,221 Fireball and 204 Ruger rifles.  I have used a 222 Rem, 223 Rem,22-250 Rem , and 220 Swift but I like the other rifles for prairie dog shooting. I live in prairie dog country  and have enjoyed tring out the 22 , 20, and 17 caliber varmint rifles. I dont need  a 17 Hornady Hornet but a Max load of 10.0 Gr of Lil Gun powder will get the little 20 Gr V Max bullet going at 3,600 FPS . The 17 Hornet case is thicker than the 22 Hornet case and does not have the long tapered case like the 22 Hornet.

[1armoured]

Thanks for the info, Tuck.


I think today's Hornets have it much better than some years ago, with the modern powders and bullets available to us.
My two rifles are at opposite ends,
a classic German, tight chamber and headspace, cost a small country's annual income,
and a 'budget' Savage Model 40, with who knows what's under the bonnet !
and surprisingly, it's done down to .3" at 100 .
I'm very pleased with both, just need to get the 'accutrigger' a bit lighter.


I just try and keep everything within MOA, to satisfy my soul, as I only get to kill paper these days.


I have some large A3 paper targets of whistle pigs for 200mtrs, and fun to keep 5 shot groups in the kill zone.
Just a bit hard to see them with old eyes to repeat the POA.


cheers,
SS

[super mario]

[tobster]

Just curious.Is the switch to pistol primers in the Hornet for purposes of accuracy?  It is also interesting that the .17 Hornet will have thicker brass as that seems to be one of the major complaints about the .22 Hornet. AA1680 is another powder that I have found to work well in the Hornet.

[cjclemens]

Yeah, the big reason people use pistol primers in .22 Hornet is the lower gas volume they produce. Rifle primers actually have enough oomph to push the bullet out of the case and partially down the barrel - all while the powder is still igniting. This creates a double spike in chamber pressure that can really play hell with accuracy. Small pistol primers ignite the powder without displacing the bullet, so you have a nice smooth peak in chamber pressure.

[Ladobe]

As a soon to be stricken P&V ADC hunter from the early 50's there isn't many 22cal cartridges I haven't had firearms for... commercial, some discontinued and wildcats.   I started reloading in the late 50's so the sky was the limit.   They all have their place, all overlap each other to cover any base, and some of course become favorites.   In the mid 60's specialty handguns also became go to's.   While I loved my wildcats the most, some of the old standbys 22's just couldn't be let go... the 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball, 222Rem, 22 Varminter (22-250).   When I got into the 17's beyond the 17Rem with a 17M4 it changed everything though, and the 17 wildcats eventually became my go to's for P&V hunting/ADC.   Some of the best were the wildcats on some of those 22cal cases - a couple of the best are now commercial cartridges, and I had most of the 17 wildcats.  Many of the old 22cal cases were also used for 24, 25, 26 & 28 cal wildcats as well.   I never got into the 20's, never felt a need, only dabbled with the 14's... but when the 17 rimfires came along they too retired my 22RF's.   So the small bores were a long and very fun ride, as was the mid bore and especially big bore wildcats I also started doing 30 odd years ago.   With the Contenders playing with something new was about as cheap as it gets before doing a rifle, so I played a lot from the late 60's.   

[cjclemens]

I feel pretty lucky to have been exposed to the wonderful world of .22 centerfires. I haven't been around as long as some of you guys and, if it hadn't been for my dad, I never would have been introduced to classics like the .222 and .22 hornet. I have yet to get into wildcats.  I would do it in a heartbeat, if I had the time and resources. I haven't tried any of the .20's either. I know there are a lot of people who swear by .204 Ruger, but it just doesn't seem like it would fill any niche I don't already have covered. I'm not saying I won't try it out sometime in the future, but I already have other things higher on the list. I'd definitely like to get into the .17's as well - I'm just afraid I'm too clumsy to try and reload those little buggers. I have a hard enough time not destroying .22 hornet brass as it is.

[Ladobe]

I have big hands, and yes it was a short learning curve to load the 17 pills.   Got my fingers pinched more than once... but when you get in the groove it really is not hard.   Even the 17 Squirrel got to be easy even though there wasn't much room for fingers.  Not near as bad as the 14's were.   I was even going to do the 12's and 10's but never got around to them.