38-55

[Bingo]

  My son was given a 1893 Marlin built in 1903. I have reloaded for modern rifles but not this beast. I would like to cast some of my own bullets but know nothing about it. This gun was obviously made for lead bullets so, why not make them
  When I went on line, I was suprised to see how many different bullet type there were. The prices shocked me too. I found a Lee mold for $20 yet others went for $150. Whats the difference? What should we use for deer as this is the primary use for the gun? Lubed bullets or not? what is the difference.
  The gun is in good condition and my Son and I have spent hours cleaning it. Laod data says I can load it from 900fps to 1800 fps. using 200-250 gr bullets. I like the 1800 idea but can it be trusted?
  So many questions so little money!

[hornady]

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[size=110%].38-55 Winchester[/size]

[size=90%]Type[/l][/t][/size] [size=90%]Rifle[/size] [size=90%]Place of origin[/t][/size] [size=90%]United States[/size] [size=110%]Production history[/size] [size=90%]Designer[/t][/size] [size=90%]Ballard Rifle & Cartridge Company[/size] [size=90%]Designed[/t][/size] [size=90%]1884[/size] [size=110%]Specifications[/size] [size=90%]Case type[/t][/size] [size=90%]Rimmed, straight-walled[/size] [size=90%]Bullet diameter[/t][/size] [size=90%].3775 in (9.59 mm)[/size] [size=90%]Neck diameter[/t][/size] [size=90%].392 in (10.0 mm)[/size] [size=90%]Base diameter[/t][/size] [size=90%].421 in (10.7 mm)[/size] [size=90%]Rim diameter[/t][/size] [size=90%].506 in (12.9 mm)[/size] [size=90%]Case length[/t][/size] [size=90%]2.085 in (53.0 mm)[/size] [size=90%]Overall length[/t][/size] [size=90%]2.510 in (63.8 mm)[/size] [size=90%]Rifling twist[/t][/size] [size=90%]1 turn in 18"[/size] [size=90%]Maximum CUP[/t][/size] [size=90%]30,000 CUP[/size] [size=110%]Ballistic performance[/size] [size=90%]Bullet weight/type[/size] [size=90%]Velocity[/size] [size=90%]Energy[/size] [size=90%]255 gr (16.5 g)1,321 ft/s (403 m/s)988 ft·lbf (1,340 J)255 gr (16.5 g)1,593 ft/s (486 m/s)1,437 ft·lbf (1,948 J)[/size] [size=90%]Source(s): Whelen, Townsend. The American Rifle. The Century Co.: 1918, p. 272.[/size] The .38-55 Winchester cartridge is named for its approximately .38 caliber bullet (actually .3775 caliber) and was introduced in 1876 by Ballard which belonged to Marlin Firearms from 1875 on for various single-shot target rifles and in their 1893 lever action. It was later used by Winchester for its Model 1894 lever-action rifle. Winchester continued to use the round in various rifles until about 1940, and also used it in a few commemorative editions of rifles since then. Also Marlin used this caliber in some 336 models. A modernized version of the cartridge debuted in 1978 as the .375 Winchester, designed with higher pressures and to be used in modern firearms only. It is not safe to fire factory .375 Win ammunition in rifles chambered in 38-55, especially in older versions of the 38-55. The brass is very similar (identical in some cases) but using modern, higher pressure .375 loads in an older rifle could cause serious injury to the shooter. The .38-55 is renowned for its exceptional accuracy at ranges up to 330 yards. It is often used to hunt black bear and deer at moderate ranges[1], and is also used in Cowboy Action Shooting sidematches.

[hornady]

 sorry i tryed too copy this for you from Wikipedia came out jumbled

[Bingo]

Thanks! I had gone to the page you posted before I saw what you had tried to copy. Good try and good info.

[Richard P]

If you wish to review MarlinOwners.com you will find a section of the forums dedicated to 38-55s and a few others.  As mentioned bore diameters approach .380  So you'll need to know the throat diameter.  Also I would think it appropriate to respect the age of the action and stick to loads around 1300 fps; which for a 250 to 275gr bullet are no slouch.
You should check the barrel and see if it is marked ''Special Smokeless Steel'' which would be desirable on an 1893 model rifle.  With care your rifle should provide decades of use.
You can find new 38-55 cases or you can form cases from 30-30 and 32 Win Spl. You'll have to load a fast powder and top it with TP----no bullet is allowed. These will be a bit short but are fully serviceable once completely formed.  Do some reading before buying a mould.

[Nobade]

I would add a couple of points. One, get Starline long 38-55 brass. It is likely the only available case that will properly fit your chamber. Two, as mentioned the groove diameter of 38-55 barrels can run well over .380" Most of the time if a bullet big enough to fill the grooves is seated in a case, even the thin Starline ones, the round won't chamber. This is because the chambers are dimensioned for use with black powder. A soft lead bullet loaded over black powder doesn't care if it is a few thou under groove diameter. When the powder lights off it will fit properly, and shoot accurately. Trying to fire a hard lead bullet under groove diameter over smokeless powder will lead to gas cutting, leading, and poor accuracy. This is why so many people have trouble getting their 38-55s to shoot well, they don't understand how the gun's dimensions relate to each other and to the cartridges and they insist on using modern loading techniques and propellants. Make ammunition for it that it is designed to use and it will perform very well. Feed it something it's not designed for and it will not work right. 

[Bingo]

Richard P you are right it is marked special smokeless powder.
No blade I have a question "Hard lead/soft lead"? Talk to me!!!

[Richard P]

Some years ago I had bought a ''rescue'' 336 in 30-30.  I found a 38-55 (1893) barrel and had it threaded onto the 336 reciever.  Since the 336 is already stout enough for 30-30 loads it can be loaded above the black powder velocities.  I bought a Lyman single cavity 375296 if I recall its designation.  The 1893 barrel has Ballard rifling. 

[Nobade]

Richard P you are right it is marked special smokeless powder.
No blade I have a question "Hard lead/soft lead" ? Talk to me!!!

Hi,
By soft I mean what you would use with black powder. The most commonly used alloy would have to be 20:1 lead/tin. (95% lead, 5% tin) No antimony, you want something that works like putty and isn't brittle.

Most commercially made cast bullets are something like hardball alloy, or 92% lead, 2% tin and 6% antimony. That works poorly with black powder loads, especially if you are expecting it to slug up and seal the bore.

A simple test is to use your fingernail, if it dents easily it's probably soft enough to work. If it doesn't dent or can barely be scratched, it's too hard.

[twoshooter]

My best guess, since you obviously don't have a lot of equipment is to buy some bullets intended for Cowboy Action Shooting to start, or even some ammo to try it out. The Lee mold will probably work fine for you to start, you should be able to use wheel weights for the metal and cool the bullets slowly so as not to harden them.You can use drip lube to start, my Lyman book shows the 250 gr accuracy load is also the starter- 24 gr of IMR 4198, right at 1500 fps, just under 17K psi. If it shoots good in your gun it will last forever and brass life should be terrific also.

[Nobade]

In my own 38-55 Marlin, black powder loads at 1250 fps (full loads) track to the sights almost perfectly. Each notch of the elevator gives me another 50 yds. From 50 yds to 200 yds, I just put the sight on the correct notch and I'm there. So for hot dry days I wanted to come up with a smokeless load that duplicates that. I ended up with 18gr. IMR 4198 with dacron fluff on top, under the Lee 250gr. bullet. (same as I use with black powder) It isn't perfect, at 100 yds it's a couple inches lower but otherwise tracks the same. This is really handy, being able to use either load without having to remember sight offsets and they both shoot lights out. 38-55s are just so much fun - no recoil, incredibly accurate, and plenty of power to 200 yds for hunting or in my case knocking the 60 lb. steel rams off their stands. Like a mini 45-70 that uses half the powder and lead.

[ron haralson]

Interesting discussion - I don't have a 38-55, have always been interested. All I have to add is that either my 30-30s or 45-70 do better with 20:1 than the wheel weight = 2% tin alloy. I use both. That has been true through 2000 fps for the 30-30 and as hot as I've wanted to load the 45-70.
Grouch

[Steelbanger]

The 38-55 has a strong following in NRA Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette too. I know many shooters that use the Lee 250 gr. bullet and light charges of Unique. That combination will get you into your target velocity range with accuracy to brag about. Most of the Lee moulds drop a bullet of about .380 diameter and you could possibly get by without sizing the bullets, just pan lube. Also, the WW factory loads should be suitable for your rifle. I can attest to the fact that the factory loads will cleanly kill a deer.

My prediction is that soon you'll be looking for another 38-55 because one just isn't enough.

[gcrank1]

Fitting as large a bullet to a fully fire-formed case neck as possible and still be able to chamber and extract cleanly is what you are likely looking for. That will get you as close to the groove dia. as you can without throat reaming a classic rifle chamber. If you get an outside neck turning tool you can uniform the case necks for wall thickness and that can help. Do a couple of cases to find that sweet spot for using the Lee as cast and pan lubed (yes, you need lube) and thinning the neck to get that nice chamber fit before doing the whole batch. I prefer no resizing as most dies are made to dramatically undersize to fit 'all' chambers' and make the neck hold a jacketed bullet. You may have heard that you dont use jacketed bullet criteria for cast bullets, right?
The 38-55 is a 'pussycat' and still can do the job. I happily use Trail Boss powder.