mouse guns and deer

[SHOOTALL]

I always get a kick out of these threads.    I say stop questioning the guns and start questioning your ability... you'll find out pretty quick that one of them ain't up to snuff... and it ain't the guns.
 
 
 
Spanky

 
I have no problem hitting what I want so It makes little difference if its a 308 or a 223 . I have only seen a couple deer shot with a 22 cal. one a 22 cheeta ( 308 necked down to 22 . A bit over 4000 fps). Of course it worked. But here is another observation. What I have experinced is it matters how far the deer is from the muzzle as to how a bullet works. A 30-30 or 7X30 waters both work well at under 150 yards. A 307 win , 308, or 30-06 work ok out to 150 yards but seem to be a better load past 150 yards , they have slowed a bit and seem to do a better job. They don't either explode and ruin a lot of meat or pass thru. doing little damage. Most rounds have a sweet spot as for the speed of the bullet being  optimun. It can be affected by temp. , humidity etc. What I have found is the smaller the bullet the more those variables effect the round. So in many cases a 22? will work but will it in all situations ? and is it the best choice ? 

[Spanky]

I always get a kick out of these threads.    I say stop questioning the guns and start questioning your ability... you'll find out pretty quick that one of them ain't up to snuff... and it ain't the guns.
 
 
 
Spanky

 
I have no problem hitting what I want so It makes little difference if its a 308 or a 223 . I have only seen a couple deer shot with a 22 cal. one a 22 cheeta ( 308 necked down to 22 . A bit over 4000 fps). Of course it worked. But here is another observation. What I have experinced is it matters how far the deer is from the muzzle as to how a bullet works. A 30-30 or 7X30 waters both work well at under 150 yards. A 307 win , 308, or 30-06 work ok out to 150 yards but seem to be a better load past 150 yards , they have slowed a bit and seem to do a better job. They don't either explode and ruin a lot of meat or pass thru. doing little damage. Most rounds have a sweet spot as for the speed of the bullet being  optimun. It can be affected by temp. , humidity etc. What I have found is the smaller the bullet the more those variables effect the round. So in many cases a 22? will work but will it in all situations ? and is it the best choice ? 

 
It's certainly not the best choice... especially for deer but it does do the job if the shooter does their job. I think a .223 or .22-250 are good choices for recoil shy shooters or youngsters with PROPER supervision. When it comes to the .22's I think it's important to use the heaviest bullet that will shoot well in the rifle. I'm very fond of the 60gr. Nosler Partition for deer... it's performance is excellent and it'll knock one down as quick as a 30-06.
 
 
 
Spanky

[SHOOTALL]

So it seems some depend on shot placement knowing a deer can move messing up their shot while others load for worst case .
 I will load for worst case.

[Spanky]

Any ethical hunter knows shot placement is most important.   Fact is anyone can rake a deer end to end with a 300 Mag. Doesn't make them a hunter it just makes them a shooter.
 
 
 
Spanky

[SHOOTALL]

And anyone knows that shot placement depends on hunter doing his job perfect. The target not moving . The rifle being in top shape including the sighting system and the round being exactly like the ones the rifle was sighted in with. Any one of those factors that is not 100% can cause shot placement to be marginal at best. Adding the insurance of more power to increase hydrostatic shock to increase the area affected by the shot can only be viewed as prudent and ethical. And since you bring up ethical , if your shot is not the perfect bang flop heven forbid , is it then ethical to be using a mouse gun for followup/hail mary shots at the now wounded departing deer ? Or would it be better to have a gun with enough power to rake a shot through a deer and stop them from escape and suffering ?
 so as I posted , worst case or shot placement . BTW no type of shot makes one a hunter really. The shot is taken after the hunt.

[alan in ga]

I wanted to try a bullet that acted like a game bullet in water and test media. Worked the same on two does shot 2 minutes apart broadside lung shots. Both bullets full penetration but stopped under farside hide. Approx 100 lb does. One dropped in tracks, other ran 30 yards and DRT.
I had heard many storys about the 22 Hornet being a deer killer. With THIS bullet, a Winchester 45gr soft point, it is very believeable.
Recommend them? Nope. Better rounds out there. However if all I had was hornet ammo with THIS bullet I would use it with few qualms.
All other bullets I tested in water and wet newsprint, both factory ammo and handloads blew up like the varmint bullets they were intended to be. Would NOT use them on anything bigger than a coyote.
I think a .223 WITH THE CORRECT GAME BULLLET would be a fine deer round for at least the smaller whitetails. Just don't put a NEW hunter out there with a semi auto like one aquaintence did [Ruger Mini]. I like the Contender Carbine or Handi Rifle for newbies!

[Spanky]

+1 on the Winchester 45gr. softpoints. They're deadly on whitetails.
 
 
 
Spanky

[RevJim]

 In the 220 Swift I used, it had a 24" barrel ( a Model 700 Classic take-off barrel put on a Model 7) I used the then available Federal 55gr Trophy Bonded load. They usually stopped under the offside hide, averaged .45" caliber. I noticed that the wind really affected it, so I had to be very careful. I used the 85gr XBT in the 6x47mm (right at /243 velocities, had a 26" barrel) I used , only recovered one, also .45 cal, and I used the old 50gr XLC in a little CZ 527 .221 Fireball on a shoat around 70 pounds or so. It exited at 75yds but left a .50 cal exit. It shot the Remington 50gr Accupoint factory load to same POI, so I used it on crows and switched ammo for the hog. I intentionally shot the hog behind the right shoulder and it exited center of the left one, just to see what it would do. I personally like the Premiums for small calibers too. I used these small calibers as a test/or necessity. I much prefer the .243 as a minimum, and really like the .270 class as all around. However, if I still lived in Texas, I most likely would still have a .224 TTH (.22/6mm) and the 75gr Swift loads I used to have. I also had a great load with the WW 64gr bullet, another good one. I love trying out  all this stuff, ha. Good posts gentlemen!
Now, my cousin, a beautiful fair skinned Platinum blonde has always bruised easily, and is afraid of hard kickers,  so she uses a Remington 700 (kinda heavy) in 22-250 with 55gr softnose for all her deer hunting "in Texas" (again, small deer). She shoots them behind the shoulder, lots of bloodshot, but she is like me...we don't eat every scrap, ha.

[muznut 54]

I think it depends on what part of the country you live in? For small southern deer a 223 would be fine and you have to consider your terrain too. Where I live and hunt their are boulders bigger than houses and the woods are very thick and steep, recovery can be tough and I'm not going to shoot through dense woods and brush with a 22cal rife.   

[RevJim]

 Yep, open terrain, close shots are best for the mouse guns! I also want them to stop asap. We have canyons out here I can't hardly crawl into! I sure don't want a mule deer to run into one of those! Where I grew up in SE Texas is called "The Big Thicket", palmetto, brush,trees, one has to pick a hole or cut a shooting lane ( or best is an old fence line or tram road) to get a clear shot. I went almost 20yrs beofre I got a shot at close to 300yds, and that was on a pipeline right-of-way, ha. Now, the Hill Country is much better, not as many thickets, one can still set up on the edges, but it was here that I shot most deer off a feeder! 25yds to 75yds.

[flintlock]

This kinda reminds me of talking with children...You can give them advice from what you have actually done and they try to turn it around....
 
If you can't hit what you shoot at or don't want to use XXX gun then don't, it is truly that simple...
 
My brother gut shoots deer all the time, that's why his deer run when hit with his .270 and deer hit with my .243 drop....
 
Bigger guns simple don't insure that the deer won't go further...I've seen too many hunters come to our farms with larger calibers and wound deer...When we bench test the gun I find the gun shoots fine, they are just flinching...If deer "move" before the bullet hits, you are most likely flinching, move down in caliber to correct...
 
We have killed 40-50 deer a year from our farms for the past 30 years...I've killed over 500 myself so don't try to tell me what I can do and what I can't....I've seen too many deer fall to smaller calibers...

[jhm]

     This topic has gotten to the ford vs. chevy point so its time to end it and some of you go and buy a deer rifle.  Jim