teacher pensions

[guzzijohn]

I know many here have no love for public school teachers but in Kansas as a teacher you pay a significant amount each month toward your pension (over $400 out of my check). Once retired you collect your pension which is Kanas averages $1,200 a month with no COLA or any other benefits. Our state budget director (republican) needs to pull his head out as he calls our pension "lavish".
GuzziJohn

[SHOOTALL]

what's he care you are paying it ? or does the state contribute also ?

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Shootall:
"what's he care you are paying it ? or does the state contribute also ?"


I would have to research further for exact amounts. The employee contributes, the school district contributes and the state contributes something but I do not know how much off the top of my head. The problem the state faces now goes back some years. When the markets were doing well the state reduced it's contribution with the idea that the market place would make up for it. Well, when the markets pretty much crashed the state never increased back to their original contributions so now the state is facing a funding crisis. Kind of like what the feds have done with social security. Regardless the average amount paid out hardly is "lavish".
My first wife died at 45 years old. She had worked since she was 15 and as a professional IT person in the aircraft industry she made very good money and paid a lot into SS but only got $200 back out of all of that for burial expenses. The feds made big bucks off of her.
GliderJohn

[Dixie Dude]

Problem with state or government pensions, they take out the money, but spend it on something else, then the pension fund is depleted.  I think all pension funds for government workers should be privitized, the government can match your contribution, just like citizens who work for private companies with their company match.  Then when you retire, it is ALL yours to do with as you wish.  This is what they have done with social security.  It was once completely solvent.  Now, with medicare and medicaid taken out of the social security fund, it has been depleted.  The general fund borrowed from SS also.  So, I think if the government taxes for anything, it should go for that which it was taxed for.  For instance, the government takes in $400 billion a year in highway taxes on gasoline, but they give the state highway departments only about $200 billion back.  The rest is used for something else.  If they are not going to use it for what it was taxed for, then they should cut the tax by half.  Big government is very wasteful, due to it's shear size and bureaucracy.  States can handle a lot of things much better and more efficiently. 

[Bigeasy]

Guzzijohn
 
Does the $400 taken out of your check each month go directly to the $1200 per month pension, or does it go into a separate, 401k type savings plan?  If there is a 401k type investing plan, does the state match a percentage of the funds you put in?  $400 per month X 30 years works out to about $144,000.00, before any matching state money, or interest accrued over the years.
 
Is there any post retirement health benefits offered?
 
The $1200 per month is also not considering social security, which is what, about $1500 or more per month?
 
So that's about $2700.00 per month, without counting a 401k type plan that would hold at least $150,000.00 or so?
 
Just curious, crunching numbers,  questions based on my federal law enforcement retirement.
 
Larry

[guzzijohn]

The best I can describe it is that a percentage is taken out of my check so it has been less in the pass. The school district also has to contribute a percentage and the state adds some. I tried a search for the state contribution and so far I cannot find it but as stated before they reduced the state contribution and used the money for other things. This same system is used for all public employees but different professions or jobs have different percentages. The money is then pooled and the state invests it as they see fit, I have no choice in that. The monthly income is the only benefit and no COLA. Their are no other benefits,  no medical or anything else.
GuzziJohn

[mechanic]

Your pension certainly does not seem lavish...and I hope it's not defaulted upon as so many have been in so many industries.  I had a plan a few years ago where I could pick up to 4 accounts to divide my investment into, but I could not touch it or change anything until the plan anniversary in one year...and so on.  When stocks took a dive in the 90's, my plan lost almost 90% of it's value in less than a year...all I could do was watch.  Some was in risky investments and overseas funds.  If they had remained there, they would have come back and gained even more in short order...but our trust dept. that managed the fund, decided they would completely change funds....so I had to take my little dollars and reinvest in different mutual funds.
 
Long story short, my lifetime of savings soon was down to less than 3 months salary...and then the trust dept. charged a management fee.
 
As soon as I could get the little dregs out I did, and added to my personal savings and bought my current house.
 
I have a house, but my only retirement will be Social Security...if it exhists.
 
Ben

[Gary G]

Your pension is in danger. The reason is because Bernanke, the money manipulator, is keeping interest rates near zero at least through 2015. Pensions are dependent on invested funds. All pension funds are affected as are annuities. Social security will be paid in dollars worth less. This is the only way the promises can be kept. That is what an oversized, bloated government with too many wars has done to you.

[ironglow]

There seems to be a big disparityu between teachers pay and retirement, depending upon where they teach.  Here in the People's Republik of NY, teachers are some of the best paid, best retired in the community.
  Our local centralized school system teaches about 2300 students..among the staff there are 100 persons being paid over 100K per year each, many not even teaching..no wonder the annual budget is $46,000,000.  This in a community where the average wage is probably between $30 & $40K! I don't know what their retirement plan is, but if it is anything like my brother and sister-in-law, each of whom retired from an affluent, suburban Rochester school system a few years ago they should be doing OK.  My bro&sis pull down $105K retirement between them when they retired.  That before considering SS and any personal plans they may have taken out.
  It is high time that students were put on the voucher system..competition would weed out the incompetents..and elevate the better schools & teachers.  If it were some kind of national voucher system, you Guzzi may just catch a break, being as the funds would be distributed to your students at the same rate as in  NY, California and Hawaii.  Then you could get you fair "piece of the pie'..

[two-blocked]

 "national voucher system"? As in more federal intervention?
Sounds pretty liberal to me.

[guzzijohn]

So far no one is accusing me of whining (thanks). I pretty well knew what I was getting into, at least as much as one could at 22 years old when I taught my first year. I have planned my life to not be too dependent on pensions and SS and God has blessed me to not have to be. The main purpose of my OP was to ask what is the thinking process from the budget director to call that pension "lavish". Instead why could he not have said something like:
"Times are tough, things are screwed up, we all have to weather this together. I can buy that, but don't tell me $1,200 a month pension is lavish just because my pension comes from public funds, especially when my contribution alone could have made me more money if I could have controlled it. Oh my God, I think a conservative thought just leaped out of my mind!
GuzziJohn

[dwalk]

there's ALWAYS a "Catch 22" in ANY pension plan(s)
california state, and every city and county is indebted to retired employees with a pensions...as an example. and many are able to retire at age 55 and sometimes earlier...and many retire with 'disability' from those entities, too, at an early age.
if a person is paying into a pension fund, then they should get what is/was promised to them under the existing conditions at the time they began their accumulation of pension benefits.
PROBLEM: one san diego city official is drawing over one million dollars a year in pension and benefits from the city of San Diego...that, is more than likely, an exception...i know, and you know, most pensions are no where near that, but...one has to look at: how many retired employees are there that are being paid annual pensions and benefits? large cities have many, many employees...you do the math. you can see  where a massive problem is catching up with the taxpayers...how to fund these pensions?
just look at our legislators, too...they serve ONE term and have a pension and full medical benefits for LIFE...that adds up to a dramatic amount yearly.
how many years does the average retiree live and collect their pension(s)*? cities/states/fed govt has to continously grasp for more income to support the growing burden of paying those pensions and benefits.
many companies, including the one i retired from, are now telling people to contribute more to their own retiment benefit; some bitterly resent that.
congress wants to tax "Benefits" as addition income...yeah...lets get right on that...mo' money...
*there are many persons who "double-dip": serve in the military for 20 years, draw a pension from that and then work at civil service for another 30 years and draw a pension form that...NOTE: that is just an example...there are more. and i, personnally, have nothing aginst that...if a person earns it honestly, then that the way it should be.
can any one say "GREECE"?

[ironglow]

"national voucher system"? As in more federal intervention?
Sounds pretty liberal to me.

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  Not really, when one realizes the voucher system would do away with the Dept of Education and the union's stranglehold on various govt offices.  After all, the most frequent visitor to the oval office during Obama's regime has been Andy Stern..the "boss Hogg" of SIEU..
   To make vouchers even more exciting..the vouchers could be used by parents to get the best deal for a decent education for their child.  Any funds saved could go into an account which would then be applied toward college for the child...again on a competitive basis..
  A better deal for parents, students and quality teachers.  All can do better, since the unions have wasted time and effort protecting incompetents..

[ironglow]

Be careful Guzzi...these voucher guys have talked about insourcing quality teachers from India and the Philipines just like hospitals have for doctors and nurses, and construction has for laborers.
.
..TM7 

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  Now THAT is an assinine statement!  I know of several private schools, and NONE of them use imported teachers..especially now, when under the Obama regime, so many qualified people are searching for ANY job!
      Imported teachers would be an exercise in futility anyway..because of language, culture barriers, and since in most cases, there is so much waste in the public school system.  Right now, the cost-per-pupil in the local school system is over $16,000 per school year.  The local Christian school tuition is $200 per month...that's more like $1800 per year!
  Of course, a small portion of the cost for public schools is student transportation, which would bring the cost per month for private schools up a couple hundred per month.
   Say for instance, if the voucher were issued for $13,000 cost per year per pupil.  That means the spendthrifts here would have to economize a bit, while perhaps Guzzi's school district would have newer, greater funds.  That way perhaps, Guzzi would get a better pension.
 
TM...You made the charge that private schools are importing teachers...SHOW DOCUMENTATION, PLEASE.
 
 
     The simple, beautiful fact is, that in the extreme case teachers were imported, by the very nature of the voucher system..parents do not HAVE TO send their children to any school which is failing the students.     Competition improves all things !!!!

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Ironglow:
" Right now, the cost-per-pupil in the local school system is over $16,000 per school year.  The local Christian school tuition is $200 per month...that's more like $1800 per year!"


Maybe that private school cost would be higher if they had to serve high need special needs students. Also many private Christian schools cost much more than your example. The one in my district is twice that plus other fees and that is still cheap compared to most.  Currently if a special needs student attends a private school guess who pays for and is required to provide the services for that child? It is the public schools that the private school resides in, not the private school that the student is attending. Some special needs student costs can easily exceed  a $100,000 per year. Once again this is comparing apples to oranges.
GuzziJohn

[Empty Quiver]

You are going to try and lure customers into a school staffed with "damn fereners?" Good luck on that. But, you know what, if they are of such superior ability to those American teachers then they should prosper. No good reason why they should be that superior though.

[Empty Quiver]

TM...You made the charge that private schools are importing teachers...SHOW DOCUMENTATION, PLEASE.

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I didn't say that. What I said is there is talk about it. Just like universities now hire from abroad. In fact, at my local taxpayer funded state university alot of profs are foreign and students mostly asian. Biggest complaint is you can't understand what's being said in class....drove indigenous students away.  Of course, east Indians speak the King's english and Philipinoes fluent as well..some Afrikaners, too. The is what you get with One World Order....expect more of this with Mitt, a consumate One World Order guy.
.
..TM7

Back in '83 I had one of those Indian T A's. This was in a organic chemistry lab. For several minutes, in the thick accent, he referred many times to a thermo meter. Damned if I could figure out where / what this thermo meter was. I was not alone either several of us were looking about the lab for a clue as to what to do here. Finally someone ginned up the courage to ask what a thermo meter was. Thermometer of course, but between the accent and pronunciation most of us were stymied.

[ironglow]

TM...You made the charge that private schools are importing teachers...SHOW DOCUMENTATION, PLEASE.

.
I didn't say that. What I said is there is talk about it. Just like universities now hire from abroad. In fact, at my local taxpayer funded state university alot of profs are foreign and students mostly asian. Biggest complaint is you can't understand what's being said in class....drove indigenous students away.  Of course, east Indians speak the King's english and Philipinoes fluent as well..some Afrikaners, too. The is what you get with One World Order....expect more of this with Mitt, a consumate One World Order guy.
.
..TM7

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  TM;
      I know what you mean!  I retired from a "fortune 500"...where they scheduled University level classes for us with regularity.  My experience with them were mixed..but most of course, had something to offer.  However, two particular classes stand out:
 
   1) We had one class where the instructor was a PhD...but she could scarcely spell past C-A-T..  Really; her spelling was so poor..we wondered how she ever made BA, say nothing about Phd.
 
 2)  The other was a very pretty, efervescent lady, who likely knew her subject very well.  Her problem was communication.. Having travelled some and lived in Europe for 2.5 years, I can usually cut through an accent..but this young lady was impossible to decipher...at least for me.  For instance, in her subject class (pre-windows computers), she kept repeating the word "chair" continually, where it did not seem to fit in.  It was only after I dropped from her class that I figured out some of her diction.  Among many others, "chair" was actually "share"..

[KIMBER45]

Teachers in my state contribute to their pension each paycheck. It  is matched by the state and school district.  They can not withdraw any amount of money until they either retire or quit . If they are fired because of criminal activity, they can only get out what they themselves put in and forfit any state and district contribution. After saving for some 35 years, they have a fair pension.
The trick as Suzzie Orman says is to NOT touch the pension for any reason,

[magooch]

When you use the $1200 per month average figure, it doesn't begin to tell the whole story.  It would be more meanignful if the pension amount for thirty, or forty years of service were known and at what age those pensions are accessible.  What other benefits go along with the pension?
 
I don't mean to dispute whether, or not the pensions are lavish--it's just that an "average" benefit isn't enough information to judge if that claim is valid.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from magooch:
"When you use the $1200 per month average figure, it doesn't begin to tell the whole story.  It would be more meanignful if the pension amount for thirty, or forty years of service were known and at what age those pensions are accessible.  What other benefits go along with the pension?
I don't mean to dispute whether, or not the pensions are lavish--it's just that an "average" benefit isn't enough information to judge if that claim is valid."


My guess is that is the amount being paid out as an average of those collecting, including administrators. As stated in a previous post there are no other benefits, no medical of any kind and no COLA. To retire fully here you must have 85 points. That is your age and years of service added together. Your benefit amount is based on a percent of your last three years salary averaged. My wife whom is a recently retired state social worker is on the same system and her amount is going to be around $960 a month but as a group social workers are paid less than teachers. I will have my points in three years. It appears that I will collect around $1,600 as my current position pays a bit better than a teacher's with the same education and experience.


As said before I am not whining as I pretty well knew what to expect when I started in this field. I just feel insulted that our benefits are called "lavish" by our state financial director.


What is really a kicker is that state legislators are fully vested in only four years of service, their retirement amount is based on salary plus milage paid, plus living allowances, office expenses, etc. which comes out to over $80,000 a year all combined. On top of that their funds are kept in a separate and more protected account than what the rank and file employees have.
GuzziJohn

[ironglow]

  Guzzi;
   You may be getting blamed for others excesses.  Here in the "People's Republik", teachers retire with a gold-plated, fully paid medical coverage in most cases.
  A voucher system may equalize some of that for you too..