Author Topic: Why are single shot rifles so expensive?  (Read 2784 times)

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Offline Hound_Dog55

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« on: January 11, 2004, 02:13:51 AM »
When you compare the cost of a single shot shotgun to a single shot rifle,
you find the rifle will cost at least 3 times more. I can understand the Encore to some degree with its versatility, but with most of the others, swapping barrels is more trouble than its worth. just wanted some of ya'lls opinions.

Offline onesonek

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2004, 05:14:18 AM »
The bulk of the difference, is in design, manufacturing process, materials, labor cost, and to some degree, the name.

Offline Voyageur

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2004, 07:21:43 AM »
The single shot shotgun operates at a much lower pressure than the singleshot rifles, a smoothbore shotgun barrel is easier to mass produce than a rife barrel, there are many more rifle chamberings (including specialized rifle chamberings) than there are shotgun chamberings, sights are more expensive and the market is smaller.  Other than that there is no difference. :grin:

Offline Daveinthebush

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NEF
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2004, 08:11:02 AM »
Check out NEF's.  Same action with interchangable barrels.

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Offline Voyageur

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2004, 08:48:35 AM »
Oooops...sorry boys, I thought you were speaking of dedicated single shots like falling blocks, tilting blocks and rolling blocks...a whole different class indeed.

Voyageur

Offline Prince of Wales

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2004, 11:41:05 AM »
If I make a lot of something I can sell it at a lesser cost. If there is limited demand then I have to ask more for that product to make it worth my time. The parts I need to assemble the high volume product will be less costly to me because I can buy them in volume thus sell that product for less. Its all supply and demand. Best of luck. POW

Offline marlinman93

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2004, 12:25:52 PM »
Quality and machine work. That's the reason for the price difference. But there is one other thing that has been going on for the last 10 years or so. An upsurge in interest towards the old single shot rfles. Seems people just can't get enough of them, and they're willing to pay a premium for them.
 It's sure been a double edged sword for me. On one hand I'm tickled that all the old single shots I own are way up in value, but on the other hand, I have to save a lot longer to buy the next one!
Ballard, the great American Rifles!

Offline Prince of Wales

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2004, 08:24:40 AM »
The new Winchester 1885 single shot is an excellent example of this. The retail price is something like $895. Thats a lot of money for a singleshot .22 when you consider how mant autoloaders or bolts can be purchased for that amount of money. On the other hand NEF and Rossi are able to bring single shot rifles to the market of a fraction of this cost. Who`s to say? Best of luck. POW

Offline jeff

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2004, 10:21:55 AM »
That's kinda like asking why divorces are so expensive?

If you do it right, it's worth every nickel it cost.  If you do it wrong, it's very, very expensive.   Only you can determine the actual worth of that experience.

Offline Leftoverdj

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2004, 11:09:57 AM »
Part of it is us. What market there is for utility grade singleshots is pretty well met by the NEF, Rossi, Baikal and the little Stevens .22. With the exception of the Stevens, those guns are way overbuilt. They can be made in quantity and sold cheaply because one action size does for all calibers.

Other than those guns, we are driven in large measure by nostalgia and a degree of snob appeal. That means guns built the way they used to be and the way they used to be built has gotten real expensive. We want walnut stocks with real checkering, a decent blue job, all steel parts and often actions that don't lend themselves to rapid production methods.

A whole section of the market is gone, too. Boys don't get rifles the way they used to and the ones who do get them get repeaters. That gets us back to the action size thing again. The Stevens and the hard to find Baby Rolling Block are the only scaled down SS I am aware of. I can't even think of a SS .410 frame on the market that could be used as a basis for small rifles. The market just does not seem to be there.

I'm pretty sure that were the market there, very decent modern SS could be made to sell for under $200, perhaps under $150. They'd likely have synthetic stocks and be made mostly from stampings, but you could build a small frame for five pound rifles in the rimfires and the smaller centerfires, maybe up to .357 max. I'd buy one in .25-20 and another in .32 H&R mag in a heartbeart. I'd even buy breakopens were they built on a .410 frame. I'd really love to see rifles on de Haas's Chicopee actions on the market.

But I ain't likely to get the chance because there just are not enough people as crazy as me and thee.
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Offline ironglow

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2004, 01:17:30 AM »
Hey Leftoverdj;
     Pleased to see you over here on Graybeard's forum!
  Now hear this!! I agree 100% with you on your post about ss rifles!!! especially with your mention of a .32 mag in a SS rifle.
   I just finished posting such under someone's query here as to whether we use our single shots for hunting....
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Mauser

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2004, 08:41:26 AM »
I'll second that about seeing you over here, leftoverdj!  The world needs the truly freedom-minded people to communicate with each other.

As to single shot rifles, I can only speak to the Winchester/Browning and Ruger single rifles.  They are, probably, my favorite newly-manufactered sporting arms because of their beauty and lines.  It also seems that in both cases, the manufacturers tend to put their best wood on them.  While I can't afford to own many, I'm not offended by their price.  Aesthetic value has value.

Offline marlinman93

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2004, 02:21:03 PM »
I agree with you DJ, but with one exception. The demand is there! Talk to anyone and they'll all tell you they'd love to have a good single shot rifle, if the prices weren't so high.
 There's tons of demand, but not at $2,000, which is where all the best single shot rifles go. The medium range singles go around $1,000, and that's still too high for the average person, when a great bolt action is half that price.
 I think if these rifles were to be mass produced in large quantities, the price would come down. They wouldn't match the quality of the Shiloh Sharps, Ballards, CPA's, etc., but they would be in an affordable range. Some of the Italian singles are getting close, but they still run at least $650+.
 What I've always wondered is why anyone would pay $2,000+ for a reproduction single, when an original could be purchased for that price, which would only go up in value?
 I'll take the originals any day, over a repro!
 
Ballard, the great American Rifles!

Offline jvs

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2004, 12:30:12 AM »
In my opinion, it is a differnt kind of person/hunter who buys and uses a single-shot firearm.  That person is usually comfortable and confident with his shooting ability and understands shooting basics, as opposed to the 'spray and pray' crowd.  And there's a certain amout of beauty in single-shots.

After that quality comes into the picture.  I have found single shot firearms to be of higher quality in most cases.  Some of the lower end manufacturers don't have the quality, but overall, a quality single-shot rifle or pistol is usually worth the cost.

It all depends on who's handling it.  I'd be alot more fearful of a experienced single-shot shooter than 3 spray-n-prayers, each with 30 rounds of ammo.    In the end, they'd probably all have 27 rounds left. :-)
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Offline Sourdough

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2004, 08:10:27 AM »
There is one other factor, Quality.  I own several NEFs, and really like them, but there is no comparison between them and my TCR for quality.  The TCR is a fine gun, opens smoothly, closes smoothly, has adjustiable set triggers that can't be beat.  Changing barrels is simple and easy, no tools required.  The fit of each barrel is superb.  Just picking it up, you know you have a precision piece of craftmanship in your hands.  Well worth the high price.
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Offline G. Hamilton

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2004, 06:40:10 AM »
I suppose economy of manufacture does play as big part as any. Producing larger quantities of any product (usually) ensures that the per-piece cost is lower, relatively speaking. Whether or not the MSRP reflects low production costs is another matter, but I remember being taught that there was supposed to be a correlation. Custom and semi-custom guns aside, I wonder if there really is enough general market interest in single-shot rifles to enable a manufacturer to get the costs down on anything other than a break-open. The current Savage rimfires are still a step away from where I'd like them to be, but I am often tempted to buy one just to try and nudge things in the right direction.

Used original rifles in this neck of the woods seem to be either quite expensive, or very worn-out (and often are both), which has kept me from investing in them. I'm just coming back around to single-shots after a 20+ year absence, but being networked seems to still be very important if you want to find the "good stuff." In my case, it matters less than it might to others, because I have always had a phobia about messing up anything original... shooting one makes me nervous, and I have enough real worries the way it is without adding imagined ones. I still love to see people out with the oldies, but envy them as I might, I am (usually) glad they are someone else's guns!

So what to do if a person wants something new? That's the question I'm asking myself right now. I suppose I could take enough of that old, dusty money out of the bank to order a new Ballard or Shiloh Sharps (or maybe a Meacham) and wait my turn, but not without a bit (!) of resistance from my frugal spouse. There is no denying the superiority of fit and finish on the higher end pieces, but beyond a certain level, I run up against the law of diminishing returns and it becomes a matter of artistry and aesthetics to me. I don't need an exact copy of anything original (at least not right now), so once again, maybe I'm more likely to be easily pleased with a rifle that would not be someone else's cup of tea.

I have a T/C Contender carbine with a 16-1/2" T/C Custom Shop .22LR bull barrel that shoots very bit as well as a mid-level match gun, but with the Rynite stocks and that stubby tube, it is really more of a "pro-street" late 1990's buggy rifle that packs in a briefcase than it is an elegant small-game or offhand rifle. I have toyed with the idea of getting a new 26" barrel and replacing the synthetic furniture with walnut, thus making a sort of "faux Maynard" out of it. By the time I was done, even that setup probably wouldn't  be "cheap enough" as far as my wife would be concerned, but it would be a lot closer than any domestic falling/rolling block replica; if it shot like my current shorty, it might actually be a bargain.

I think it is unfortunate that there isn't a larger pool of $1000 (or under) plain-vanilla single-shots that would hold up, shoot well and not look too glaringly out of place if transported in time back to a c. 1899 low-intensity schuetzenfest. I would personally prefer something that was made in the U.S.A., but one of the better Italian rigs wouldn't be out of line from the looks of things today. My last venture into foreign replicas was back when brass trigger guard/barrel-banded .45-70 Italian rollers were virtually the only thing in the game, but looking at some of the new Uberti and current Pedersoli single shot rifles makes me see how much they have matured. I haven't had the opportunity to actually wring out any of these imports, but they look pretty nice to me.

If Sturm, Ruger & Co. would make a .22LR version of the #1 with an appropriate barrel, #3 finger lever and a mid-range tang sight in place of the safety, I'd be happy as a lark (or clam, depending on what part of the animal kingdom is actually more jolly). Given the state of the industry in the U.S. right now, I'm not sure who else would be able to pull something like this off and still keep it at the price point I envision it. In any event, it would (in my mind) fill a niche in the current market, but maybe I'm way off the mark.

I apologize for the rambling "stream of consciousness" here, but I'm dazed and confused after being away from the single-shot game so long. It's a whole new world!

Offline Tom W.

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2004, 12:07:39 PM »
Snob Appeal? Us?  :shock:  Heavens, we use them to conserve ammunition! :)
Tom
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I really like my handguns!

Offline quickdtoo

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2004, 07:54:20 PM »
Not all ss rifles are created equal....

http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/feb97money.html
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Offline Big Paulie

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2004, 08:59:36 AM »
NEF could find a whole new market if it would just add $100 to the price of the Handi-rifle, call it a delux model, and put a really nice walnut stock on it, with computer cut checkering, that is flush with the metal surfaces of the receiver, instead of bulging over top of it like a roll of fat.  The NEF is a great rifle, but I've got to tell you that the stocks look so cheap that a lot of middle class guys who would be willing to pay up to $400 for a single shot are turned off by its looks and appearance.  I'll bet alot of budget minded shooters would be attracted to it too, since a basic Remington 700 would still cost a whole lot more.

Best Regards,

Big Paulie

Offline Helnik

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Cost of single shot custom
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2004, 04:58:19 PM »
Action-Nesika Bay model J single shot,Right bolt.Right port.
Barrel-Hart 1-8 twist,6.5x55,26" Remington Varmint contour.
Stock-McMillian Remington Varmint pattern,color black/grey.
Trigger-Shilen
Weight-9 1/2 Lbs w/o scope
Black teflon finish.
Cryogenic Treament
Talley or Dakota sling swivel bases.
Scope-Leupold Mk4 Longrange tact.
8.5 25x50 ILL mil-dot.

Builder-David Tooley,Gastonia.N.C.
7 months to build,Cost +/- $5000.00

Also hard case and cleaning kit.

Nick

Offline marlinman93

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2004, 01:48:48 PM »
Big Paulie,
 You sir have hit the nail on the head! I looked at pictures of the H&R Buffalo Classic, and thought from the pictures, and my dealer's suggested price of $360, that it would be the right gun for an inexpensive single shot.
 I went ahead and ordered one, and when it arrived, I was pretty disappointed. The wood quality was very good, but the fit to metal, and the finish on the barrel was sure cheap, to say the least. I sold it to a friend who didn't care about these things. I guess I should have suspected this with the price tag, but I would have paid another $150 to have a nicely fitted stock, and good metal finnish.
 I would have also liked to see them offer a full octagon barrel, and more calibers. As it is I have heard they dropped the .38-55, and who knows the fate of the .45-70?
 H&R was headed in the right direction with this combination, they just stopped short of their destination. Had they done this idea up right, they would have gotten a huge share of the market in reasonably priced single shot rifles.
Ballard, the great American Rifles!

Offline Helnik

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You get what you pay for!
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2004, 06:20:14 PM »
I like a good looking weapon as well as the next guy,but I will take accuracy first,so just about all my weapons are chosen with looks taking second place.
Nick

Offline Big Paulie

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2004, 12:18:38 PM »
Dear Guys,

     I think that Rossi is hitting this market just right.  I looked at one of the new Rossi Single shot rifles in .243 at the gunstore last week, and I was extremely impressed.  The hardwood it is using is a very dark, very dense, brazilian hardwood that looks and feels like basic walnut (but with slightly less grain.)  

    The fit, finish, and stock look ten times better than that NEF Handi-Rifles, and they have an excellent and convenient safety system.

   Whether they will end up shooting as good as the NEF rifles, I do not know.  But, I've got to tell you, that even if they shoot groups three quarters of an inch larger than the NEF, I would choose the Rossi (particularly in a big game caliber).  

    Rossi is now offering these rifles in .243, .308, 30-06, .357 magnum, .44 magnum, and I think 25-06 and 45 long colt.  They have full sized versions and youth versions.

    Nobody is saying that the NEF isn't an excellent rifle, all I am saying is that I would gladly pay $100 to $150 more for it so that it doesn't look like a dog, and I'm betting that tens of thousands of other shooters would too.  The closest competitor would be the Ruger No. 1, which much more expensive and much heavier than the NEF.

Best Regards,

Big Paulie

Offline Big Paulie

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Why are single shot rifles so expensive?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2004, 02:35:37 PM »
By the way, Marlin mentioned that NEF is dropping the 38-55.  But I did some reseach a while back, and I concluded that the ballistics of the .357 magnum coming out of a rifle barrel are very very similar to the .38-55.

Just something to think about.

Big Paulie