C&B pistols and the law

[JonnyReb]

 Although I realize laws concerning handguns vary from place to place, I wondered if anyone has some basic facts concerning the differences between carrying a "firearm", concealed, in your vehicle or otherwise, in comparison to the same mode of carry but with an "antique replica" blackpowder revolver..   To paint a specific picture: I don't have a cc permit but can and do legally own sidearms. If I go backpacking here in N.C. And want to carry a pistol it must be exposed. Now if I carried a small blackpowder c&b revolver, can it be legally concealed without the CC permit, being that its not a firearm? Thanks!   Jeff

[Hellgate]

The classification for "not a firearm" only has to do with interstate shipping regulations through the post office as a result of the gun Control Act of 1968. i.e. it is OK to buy/sell by mail order and use the US post office for muzzle loading firearms. Some states say otherwise so you need to check with your local authorities. However, most states don't care if it is a muzzleloader or not when it comes to concealed carry. To them a gun is a gun and whether it is a BP caplock or a Tec-9(?) if it is concealed it's concealed and you need a permit. Some states like here in Orygun allow concealed carry while "lawfully engaged in and while going to and from a hunting or fishing expedition or shooting competition". So, on Orygun you do not need a CC permit while fishing or hunting but otherwise you need one. In Oregon they are easy to get if you have a clean record as they "shall issue" unless they can show why not.

[AtlLaw]

being that its not a firearm?

Hey Jeff!
 
What Hellgate said!      Most states have their code on line.  Go to it and find out how NC defines the term "firearm."  Assuming that firearm is the term used in the CCW statute.  It may be pistol, revolver, handgun or whatever, but that term will also be defined somewhere in the statute.
 
But be carefull when reading law!  Often times what you think is meant by what you read is not the case!   

[AtlLaw]

Just a quick look tells me you can't but research it yourself.
 
(a) The following definitions apply in this section:
(1) Ammunition. – Any cartridge, shell, or projectile designed for use in a firearm.
(2) Firearm. – A handgun, shotgun, or rifle which expels a projectile by action of an explosion.
(3) Handgun. – A pistol, revolver, or other gun that has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

[JonnyReb]

 Mmhm bout what I figured. Thanks guys for the detailed answers. I'll check further into local laws but feel sure its restricted as you've said. Oh well, was worth asking.:-).  Jeff

[SHOOTALL]

Weapon vs handgun . In Va. As for carry if charged and caped its a weapon and you better be with in the law. If not capped but charged you are OK for transport. A funny law in Va. while hunting you can concel a weapon to protect it from the elements .

[Victor3]

 Hey JR - Forget about the gun laws in NC; just be sure you don't cut anyone's hair. 


http://law.onecle.com/north-carolina/86a-barbers/index.html

[JonnyReb]

 Geez Vic, I almost got sick on that site, thanks:-).  All those freakin laws and regs turn my stomach. I did check out the barbery section, all that just to cut hair! All about their retaining power, not to mention licensing fees, continuing education ...money. Power and money.  I'm a licensed plumber in the state, I couldn't bare to go to that part of the website:-) never found the firearm section either, could only take that site in small increments. I'll go back later and try again, thanks bro!   J

[SHOOTALL]

got a lic. in the state for plumbing and heating , they may be getting better the cont. education was stopped ( a real money maker  ).

[JonnyReb]

 Hey Shootall, yesir thats a blessing. I never got so mad about my job as when the state made us waste a day of work plus pay 100 bucks to sit and listen to the "instructor" tell jokes and go over old codes. And then there were the hourly guys who ENJOYED it since their company was footing the bill. They are the ones asking lots of questions and smiling alot. Thank God its over:-).  J

[BUGEYE]

Is a C&B revolver a muzzle-loader??  a pocket full of cylinders would be like a pocket full of magazines.

this is my opinion only because I don't know the law but I'd say that a C&B repeater would need a license to conceal, where my little .45 single-shot real muzzle-loader would not.
just a guess.

[Ranger99]

carry what you want and just be discreet
and behave half civilized.
the folks that usually go for a free stay are
the ones that get drunk and have the truck
doors open and the stereo blaring.
then again. . . .not always. . . .


but you know the saying " better to be
judged by twelve. . . .

[Ranger99]

b.e. in texas, a c&b revolver is *not*
a muzzleloader, just a black powder arm.

[45-70.gov]

just get a cc permit and a real gun

[BUGEYE]

b.e. in texas, a c&b revolver is *not*
a muzzleloader, just a black powder arm.

several years ago, muzzle loaders were iron sights only in Ga, but I had a peep sight on my hawken.
I could not find anyone at the state level to tell me they were okay, and believe me, I called about all of them.  finally the warden for the area I hunted told me he didn't care.
in a couple of years the wording of the regs was changed to add peeps.

from then on when I had a question, I went to my local warden.

[Ranger99]

not verbatim, but that is from the reg book.

[JonnyReb]

 I know they(c&b) fall under the "antique" arms catagory by ATF, meaning they are not firearms. I'd think they would be lumped in with single shot muzzleloaders, from BATF's viewpoint anyways?  J

[Gatofeo]

It is a (dangerous) urban legend to believe that cap and ball revolvers are not firearms.
Carry it concealed unlawfully, and you'll be charged just as quickly as if it were a Glock. This question comes up all the time. That federal designation of "firearm" and "non firearm" apply only to regulation of sales, as I understand it.
I'm sure someone will chime in after me with the proper Federal Statute, but I've seen it quoted time and again. It's a mistake, now bordering on Urban Legend, that black powder revolvers are not legally "guns" so you can carry them concealed without a permit, or are not required to declare them in your check-in airline luggage.
Get caught doing the above and you'll find yourself in front of a judge just as surely as if it were a .38 snubnose. People want to argue the point until Doomsday, but what they need to do is call the ATF, their local prosecutor and the local sheriff to see what they say about it.
When I was a reporter 20 years ago in Idaho, a convicted felon was charged with possessing and carrying a concealed handgun. It was a Ruger Old Army in a shoulder holster. In no uncertain terms he was told by the sheriff, prosecutor and judge that if it used a substance to propel a projectile across the room, it was by definition a gun. This included air guns, by the way.
Others will tell you that black powder revolvers are not guns by definition. If you heed their advice, ask them to contribute to your bail. You'll need it.

[45-70.gov]

in  florida...you can't carry a knife.....if it is sharpened on both edges [dirk]


check state law....to my knowledge...there are no federal laws regulating carry practices

[Victor3]

When I was a reporter 20 years ago in Idaho, a convicted felon was charged with possessing and carrying a concealed handgun. It was a Ruger Old Army in a shoulder holster. In no uncertain terms he was told by the sheriff, prosecutor and judge that if it used a substance to propel a projectile across the room, it was by definition a gun. This included air guns, by the way.

 Just to clarify...



 Unless something's changed in the past couple of years (last time I researched it), I don't believe there's a federal law on the books to prevent a felon from possessing/carrying an airgun. State and local laws vary though; in some localities the concealed carry of an airgun is treated just as seriously as a firearm, felon or not.

[bigbore442001]

I know here in Massachusetts you need a license to carry ,either class A( concealed) or class B( unconcealed and for hunting or range use) if you intend to take a cap and ball revolver out of your home.

[ChungDoQuan]

I think in most places the law is interpreted as  you cannot carry any weapon concealed, gun or not. (Without a permit.)

[mattri]

I'm with 45-70 on this one- why risk it? 

A CCW isn't unreasonably hard to get, yeah it sucks to pay for the "right" to carry, but way less of a hassle than being accidentally on the wrong side of the law. 

As an example, a few years ago I was thinking of buying a handgun and started asking about whether I could buy from an individual instead of a FFL and avoid the fee.  I worded my question poorly and got a lot of flak about trying to skirt the law.  That was on this forum, from gun owners!  Imagine if you were dealing with someone who was looking for an excuse to give you trouble. 

I learned my lesson then, you have to pay to play, it sucks sometimes but them are the breaks. 

[mechanic]

I know a fellow here in Ga. that was on parole, and had a single shot black powder pistol on display in his home.  He wound up going back to jail because of it:  "possession of a firearm by a convicted felon".  Get the CCW and don't look back.
 
Ben