Author Topic: My apologies..  (Read 1410 times)

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Offline finisher

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Re: My apologies..
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2012, 08:24:09 AM »
IG,
I threw my "pedigree" at you because you suggested that I might be foreign born, which to me was just about as illogical as my making assumptions (backed with nothing other than very loose profiling) of your background; I'll give you that. Did I also mention that I'm a Scottish "MacIntosh" on another side of the family.


I'm not your enemy here. We're both Americans, and vets. But we obviously have very different perceptions and interpretations about what it was for which we fought. For me, it was as simple as "I signed the contract, took the oath, and actually read the fine print".


Not everyone shares the same values or perspectives of the way things work. And it seems to me that many are often "villainized" for having dissenting views. This practice is hardly "American" in my opinion.


You seem to have faith in this system or in some party or public figure...I can't imagine why some one as wise as you can actually believe that there is someone in DC that actually cares.


WE are not in control.(Unless you maybe have Rothschild, Vanderbuilt, Geugenheim, Dupont, Morgan, Rockefeller or one those other names attached to yours) It is a fancy to think that "the people" actually have some kind of voice but its just an illusion.


And thank you for not "blaming" me for the atrocities of the past as I don't blame anyone alive today for the atrocities that took place on this continent. My point with this though, was that whether we did those things or if it was our ancestors, the wheel will always come around in some way.


We have all enjoyed the results of those atrocities, yes. We did not commit them, no. But It doesn't change the fact that they were committed. And then the question rises: well what are we supposed to do about it? Well that is quite a question isn't it. There really isn't too much one can do except enjoy it all while it lasts, live and love while you can and be grateful for the good things that you do have. because we'll all soon have to pay the piper. Yes, ALL OF US.


Like I pointed out, all great civilizations fall. I also said that I felt that this was an act of grace.


I ask you this: Do "WE" the  the United States of America DESERVE to go on or have we neglected our internal house, stepped on one too many backs, and grown just a little bit too arrogant in our perception of our place in the world.


People hate us in EVERY country to which I've ever traveled. And it's not because they were "evil Muslims" or because they were "jealous" of the "American Way of Life" as so many Americans like to think. What exactly are they jealous of, the crime, the drugs, the illegitimate births etc. etc. and all the other things that you pointed out. Why should they be jealous? there is plenty of that going on all over the world... except maybe in your perfect little piece of "Apple Pie". Let me tell you that the best times I've ever had in my life were not spent on American soil. But here I am Back home any way.


I've already seen more than I need to see of the evils in the world. I've seen it first hand and even contributed to it quite a bit, both first hand and indirectly as so many of us do without realizing. I'm surely no one to sit in judgement nor do I feel that I have any right to impose my will either through the govt. or by my own hand, upon anyone who isn't murdering, robbing, assaulting or raping me.




I'm not into imposing my view of morality on anyone. I'm not worried about the influence that the evils of the world will have upon my children because they have minds of their own and I hope to do a good job in teaching them how to use those minds wisely. I know better than to try to control others either by preaching or by trying to sic the government dogs on them.


I didn't want this. My candidate didn't win. Never does. I'm not worried about the (oh noooo  :o ) Muslim hordes that everyone thinks are going to invade America or the "illegal invader" flash mobs that everyone fears are going to try to loot their farms and properties. Where I come from, people see death and madness all the time. I've been shot at plenty times before I got into the military. Oh well, that's life in the big city for some. We deal with it because we know that the politicians won't...EVER.


I've never known such a scared, frightened, and pathetic bunch of people as the ones who think this way.


I'm certainly not going to go around constantly pointing fingers at the "other guy".  And no matter what happens, I will do my best to persevere. I've been blessed with quite a bit in this life and all I can say is I'm quite grateful. I see no reason in being PO'd at things that are beyond my physical span of control.


IG, I truly don't think that we are here to be "sheparded" back. Rather, I think it is up to us to CHOOSE with the benefit of having had the right guidance. Is a saint still a saint if they chose under duress or out of fear. That's called coercion. YOU CANNOT CONTROL OR CHANGE PEOPLE WHEN THERE MINDS ARE ALREADY UNDER SOMEONE ELSE'S CONTROL.


If you have the means, you should go out and travel the world. But I mean LIVE in other places, don't just visit the tourist drags. Get to know how much in common you may have with even the poorest and lowliest farmer in say... Costa Rica, or Guam (yeauch). Live a few months in South Korea (away from the DMZ). Living near the base isn't real.


Don't be so angry IG... this too shall pass.






Online ironglow

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Re: My apologies..
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2012, 05:22:34 AM »
IG,
I threw my "pedigree" at you because you suggested that I might be foreign born, which to me was just about as illogical as my making assumptions (backed with nothing other than very loose profiling) of your background; I'll give you that. Did I also mention that I'm a Scottish "MacIntosh" on another side of the family.


I'm not your enemy here. We're both Americans, and vets. But we obviously have very different perceptions and interpretations about what it was for which we fought. For me, it was as simple as "I signed the contract, took the oath, and actually read the fine print".
  Same here I expect..


Not everyone shares the same values or perspectives of the way things work. And it seems to me that many are often "villainized" for having dissenting views. This practice is hardly "American" in my opinion.
  Of course, we..you and I have then "villianized" each other, agreed?


You seem to have faith in this system or in some party or public figure...I can't imagine why some one as wise as you can actually believe that there is someone in DC that actually cares.
I don't have faith in any living person..other than Jesus. I agree, most in DC don't care, or we wouldn't see the current tax/spend boondoggle we have in DC on this very day.. I do know some of them and a few, very few..do care.  To assume NOBODY acts out of altruistic motivations..is a bit too strong for me.


WE are not in control.(Unless you maybe have Rothschild, Vanderbuilt, Geugenheim, Dupont, Morgan, Rockefeller or one those other names attached to yours) It is a fancy to think that "the people" actually have some kind of voice but its just an illusion.
  Here is one point where we really differ..I don't hold much credence with the popular "conspiracy theories".  Most 'sea change' occurances throughout history have not been by "secret societies", but rather, right out in the open.
   Some sea changes..Alexander conquering much of the civilized world, Rme..openly conquering Greek interests, Vandals, Goths, Visigoths and Huns..finally defeating Rome, the rise of  Merovingians, Charlemagne founding the "Holy Roman Empire"..and then the descent into the dark ages..the rennaisance & reformation, communism, Nazism...all right out in the open.. MARX published.. DAS CAPITAL .....and HITLER ...MEIN KAMPF!  Now we have the Fabian Socialists..and they are not at all bashful about their aims...mostly bering fulfilled as we write!  Nothing secret there, we have seen their writings and pronouncements..
    secret societies have accomplished little..even though the Knights Templar had a shot once, but were busted by the pope & king Philip..now they are the Masons and more like a "good old boys" club..
 


And thank you for not "blaming" me for the atrocities of the past as I don't blame anyone alive today for the atrocities that took place on this continent. My point with this though, was that whether we did those things or if it was our ancestors, the wheel will always come around in some way.
  Best we can do is say "it was wrong" and pick up, aiming to do better.


We have all enjoyed the results of those atrocities, yes. We did not commit them, no. But It doesn't change the fact that they were committed. And then the question rises: well what are we supposed to do about it? Well that is quite a question isn't it.  Very little or nothing we can do about it, except to learn from it.  Keep in mind there is likely NO nation, nationality, ethnic group, tribe or race that has not been at some time or another, guilty of the same thing...either in macrocosm or microcosm.  Therefore it is invariably a "pot calling the stove" scenario.  There really isn't too much one can do except enjoy it all while it lasts, live and love while you can and be grateful for the good things that you do have. because we'll all soon have to pay the piper. Yes, ALL OF US.
Possibly here lies the real difference between you and I.  I do believe firmly in God..or in New Age terms..a "higher Power"..but that is something we will both be more sure of later..


Like I pointed out, all great civilizations fall. I also said that I felt that this was an act of grace.
  I have full recognition of that, which led me to post Prof Alexander Tytler's pronouncements on democracies.


I ask you this: Do "WE" the  the United States of America DESERVE to go on or have we neglected our internal house, stepped on one too many backs, and grown just a little bit too arrogant in our perception of our place in the world.
  Fourty years ago we did, but unless we change back rapidly and do a remake..probably not..


People hate us in EVERY country to which I've ever traveled. And it's not because they were "evil Muslims" or because they were "jealous" of the "American Way of Life" as so many Americans like to think. What exactly are they jealous of, the crime, the drugs, the illegitimate births etc. etc. and all the other things that you pointed out. Why should they be jealous? there is plenty of that going on all over the world... except maybe in your perfect little piece of "Apple Pie". Let me tell you that the best times I've ever had in my life were not spent on American soil. But here I am Back home any way.
  No human or government designed by humans is flawless, and I don't consider all muslims to be "evil"..but please don't expect me to ignore the catacalysmic terrorism going on today..and just say "boys will be boys"!  Sorry, I don't find a "moral equivalence" there.


I've already seen more than I need to see of the evils in the world. I've seen it first hand and even contributed to it quite a bit, both first hand and indirectly as so many of us do without realizing. I'm surely no one to sit in judgement nor do I feel that I have any right to impose my will either through the govt. or by my own hand, upon anyone who isn't murdering, robbing, assaulting or raping me.
For the most part, i don't suggest "imposing" my will on anyone, but will not surrender my 1st amendment rights to attempts at "friendly persuasion"..




I'm not into imposing my view of morality on anyone. I'm not worried about the influence that the evils of the world will have upon my children because they have minds of their own and I hope to do a good job in teaching them how to use those minds wisely. I know better than to try to control others either by preaching or by trying to sic the government dogs on them.
A difference in views here, you say "imposing", I say "convincing"..


I didn't want this. My candidate didn't win. Never does. I'm not worried about the (oh noooo  :o ) Muslim hordes that everyone thinks are going to invade America or the "illegal invader" flash mobs that everyone fears are going to try to loot their farms and properties. Where I come from, people see death and madness all the time. I've been shot at plenty times before I got into the military. Oh well, that's life in the big city for some. We deal with it because we know that the politicians won't...EVER.
  I have had reports that Detroit hasn't exactly thrived under it's "muslim invasion". ;)


   I've never known such a scared, frightened, and pathetic bunch of people as the ones who think this way.
  Which way?


I'm certainly not going to go around constantly pointing fingers at the "other guy".  And no matter what happens, I will do my best to persevere. I've been blessed with quite a bit in this life and all I can say is I'm quite grateful. I see no reason in being PO'd at things that are beyond my physical span of control.
  What do you suppose makes some communities great places to live, while others are a depraved & violent wastelsnd?  Is it not because of the collective will of residents to make it a good place?


IG, I truly don't think that we are here to be "sheparded" back. Rather, I think it is up to us to CHOOSE with the benefit of having had the right guidance. Is a saint still a saint if they chose under duress or out of fear. That's called coercion. YOU CANNOT CONTROL OR CHANGE PEOPLE WHEN THERE MINDS ARE ALREADY UNDER SOMEONE ELSE'S CONTROL.
Where everyone does exactly as he/she chooses..without ragard for others..that is called anarchy.  History tells us that at the dissolution of the holy Roman Empire, when the strong man (Charlemagne) died, things lapsed into anarchy..  Soon other despotic strong men arose to build their fiefdoms..anmarchy is not only bad, it also doesn't last.


If you have the means, you should go out and travel the world. But I mean LIVE in other places, don't just visit the tourist drags. Get to know how much in common you may have with even the poorest and lowliest farmer in say... Costa Rica, or Guam (yeauch). Live a few months in South Korea (away from the DMZ). Living near the base isn't real.
I have lived in other places..at least long enough that I despise socialism.


Don't be so angry IG... this too shall pass.  Not angry, but concerned for the young, and what they will inherit from us.  I am old and have a much better future awaiting me.
  Strange; and right along i thought you were the angry one!  ;)
 :D :D ;D
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)