Author Topic: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.  (Read 784 times)

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Offline powderman

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US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« on: December 11, 2012, 03:33:52 PM »
Navy Cancels Nativity over Atheist Complaint  Posted in Christmas Under Attack, Top Stories | 0 comments Navy Cancels Nativity over Atheist Complaint Dec 11, 2012
  By Todd Starnes
The Navy directed service members serving in Bahrain to cancel and dismantle a “Live Nativity” after receiving a complaint from a military atheist group who said the manger scene endangered Americans serving in a Muslim country and violated the U .S. Constitution.
 
The chaplain at Naval Support Activity (NSA) Bahrain confirmed to Fox News the nativity scene was cancelled – but referred any further comments to the NSA’s public information officer.
 
The “Live Nativity” was a long-standing tradition at NSA Bahrain that featured the children of military personnel dressed as shepherds, wise men, along with Mary and Joseph. It was part of a larger festival that included a tree lighting, Christmas music and photographs with Santa Claus and a camel.
But the Military Association of Athe
  Courtesy of Christian Fighter Pilot ists and Freethinkers objected to the Nativity and filed a complaint with the Navy’s Inspector General. They argued the Nativity promoted “Christianity as the official religion of the base.”
 
The atheist group also worried that the Nativity put service members in danger.
“Also of concern is the likelihood that the predominantly Muslim local population will see the U.S. military as a Christian force rather than a secular military support U.S. – but not necessarily Christian values in their Muslim country,” the MAAF wrote in their complaint. “This even threatens U.S. security and violates the Constitution as well as command policy.”
“It’s unconstitutional, it’s bad for the military and in a Muslim country it’s dangerous,” MAAF spokesman Jason Torpy told Fox News.
 
“Upon further review, the CRP (Command Religious Program) will be removing the Living Nativity Program from the general base secular holiday festivities and co-locating it more appropriately with some of our other private religious and faith-based observances at the chapel at a separate time,” read a statement the Navy reportedly sent the NAAF.
Some service members in Bahrain told Fox News called the cancellation heartbreaking and children who were supposed to act in the Nativity were devastated.
 
“It was horrible,” said one officer who asked not to be identified. “It was devastating. Here we are serving in the Middle East, defending our country and other people’s religions and we couldn’t understand why we can’t enjoy our own religious freedoms.”
Crews had already started building the Nativity structure, but orders were given to have it dismantled.
 
“You can go outside the gate and hear Christmas music, but on the base you can’t have a Nativity,” said another officer. “The sense of hypocrisy is overwhelming.”
Torpy said the idea that the Nativity has been a long-cherished tradition at NSA Bahrain doesn’t make it right. He compared it to slavery.
 
“We’re talking about the United States promoting Christianity to defenseless little kids in bathrobes,” he told Fox News. “We’re talking about the United States government saying, ‘Hey – we’re going to have a bunch of kids out here and we’re going to promote Christianity in a Muslim country to service members.’”
 
The website Christian Fighter Pilot first exposed the controversy – and noted sarcastically that service members in Bahrain “have now experienced the friendly influence of atheism on their holiday.”
Pastors and religious liberty advocates are expressing shock and outrage over the yuletide controversy.
 
“It is unthinkable that our own  military would violate the constitutional guarantee of freedom of religious expression–a freedom  that our forefathers sacrificed their lives to provide for us,” said Robert Jeffress, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Dallas. “Taxpayers give the military hundreds of billions of dollars every year to protect our constitutional freedoms, not to trample upon them.”
Ron Crews, of Chaplains Alliance for Religious Liberty, told Fox News he was disappointed the Navy “has caved in and not stood their ground to allow military personnel to express their religious beliefs.”
“It appears we have some leaders who have become overly sensitive to any threat of a lawsuit,” Crews said. “This is another example of this group’s effort to promote freedom from religion rather than freedom of religion.”
Crews said it’s nothing less than a “war on Christmas.”
Hiram Sasser, of the Liberty Institute, said the law is clearly on the side of the service members.
 
“Once again the Grinches prove their hearts are two sizes too small,” Sasser told Fox News. “The Supreme Court already saved nativity Christmas displays in 1984 and the Navy of all organizations shouldn’t back down against Grinches when law and history are on its side.”
Torpy said he is pleased with how the Navy handled the matter.
“We want to make sure that everybody has the opportunity to exercise their religion freely and we want to make sure people on the base have fun and exciting activities available for them without feeling like the base itself is establishing Christianity as the preferred belief system,” he told Fox News.
  This image, provided by Christian Fighter Pilot, shows before and after images of flyers promoting the holiday event.
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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Offline RevGeo

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 04:27:23 AM »
I am an atheist (and a disabled veteran) and I am all in favor of nativity scenes, the Christmas holiday in general (deleted by Graybeard). The problem with organized atheists is the same problem I see with all organized religions - the spending of all their time trying to push their agenda on others.
I imagine most of us are aware that the celebration occurring near the time of the winter solstice predates Christianity by thousands of years and that early Christians preempted the old pagan celebrations when they came to power.
Nowadays Christmas is observed by most Americans of all persuasions, is it not? Especially those of a decidedly commercial persuasion...I find these organized atheists laughable at best and a sad example of humanity at worst. You'd think they would have something more important to do than spoil someone else's fun. But that's what organized religions (like organized atheism) seem to do best.
Merry Christmas to all.
 

Offline Graybeard

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2012, 11:55:32 AM »
It seems several of you are trying to get yourselves banned. All of you know the kinda posts made here are not acceptable at this site. If you find your post missing or modified by me then this means YOU!


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Offline powderman

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2012, 12:20:10 PM »
Maybe somebody can explain this. IF aetheists truly don't believe in God, why is it so important to them to make sure that nobody else does either?? THeir unbelief doesn't hurt me, only them, their loss. Then why does MY belief bother them?? POWDERMAN.  ??? ???
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Defoe

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 12:57:26 PM »
Maybe somebody can explain this. IF aetheists truly don't believe in God, why is it so important to them to make sure that nobody else does either?? THeir unbelief doesn't hurt me, only them, their loss. Then why does MY belief bother them?? POWDERMAN.  ??? ???
Some people can't stand to see other people have fun, democrats for instance, and being a Christian is an enjoyable way of life.  I feel sorry for people who have no faith and no hope.

Offline finisher

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 04:09:43 PM »
Maybe somebody can explain this. IF aetheists truly don't believe in God, why is it so important to them to make sure that nobody else does either?? This is a generalization and is the same as saying that ALL believers wantonly try to get the government to legislate consensual morality. I know this isn't so because I believe and I am opposed to the government imposing any religious based/referenced code of morality.That is for the individual citizen and for church.


THeir unbelief doesn't hurt me, only them , their loss your opinion; which by the way lends absolutely no respect towards their constitutional right to NOT believe.You want a country where a religious establishment dictates the laws of the land, then move to Iran.


Then why does MY belief bother them?? POWDERMAN.  ??? ??? Them? Them WHO? Your beliefs don't bother me one bit until you try to get the government to legislatively impose those beliefs on me. Again, a generalization that demonizes anyone who does not think like you and discriminates against the rights of those whose views are different than your own. Keep you beliefs in your church and in your heart and in the long run, you will be just fine when it come time to pop tall before "the man".
***********
I had this problem when I was in the military whenever the chaplin said evening prayer over the 1MC. I had some E6 "holier than thou" try to order me to bow my head for the evening prayer when all I was doing was reading silently. I asked him why and he said that I should have some respect for peoples beliefs.


I asked what about some respect for the people whose beliefs are different than yours? Then he tried to pull rank on me (I was an E5 at the time). I asked him if he was prepared to take it to the top because I was. Lawful order? Over religious beliefs!? I think I'd rather let the CMC and the CO decide this one what about you? He backed down but because I embarrassed him in front of so many others he made my life hell after that. How "Christ" like was that I ask you. The only way for me to escape his "Christian tyranny" was to transfer out. I had only two choices that would have been relatively immediate, Op Deep Freeze or BUDS.


I chose and I stayed true to my contract. My life was changed forever because of that man and in my service I had to do "things" that were very against my grain until I could once again be transferred somewhere else other than my original command. I'd want to kill him if I ever saw him again. But that wouldn't be very "Christ like" would it.


I am not an atheist by the way. And my Faith is STRONGER than any organization or group of people who use each other as anchors against their own weaknesses. And I coexist quite well with many who I know are atheists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus... you name it, because I keep my beliefs in my OWN church; my heart and soul where they belong, as do the others with whom I peacefully coexist.


Peace to you.
Finisher.

Offline powderman

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 07:04:14 AM »
Who addressed my post with the tiny blue print that I can barely read?? And who wanted the legislature to force Christianity on anybody??
I've noticed the anti Christian attacks against prayer, Jesus, Nativity scenes, the Cross, Christmas music, even the word CHRISTmas has increased drasticly since hussein has been in office. Anybody else see this?? POWDERMAN.  :o :o
 
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 07:15:34 AM »
Who addressed my post with the tiny blue print that I can barely read??
Powderman, if you'll hold down the Ctrl key and tap the + key a few times, that text will get bigger.

Quote
I've noticed the anti Christian attacks against prayer, Jesus, Nativity scenes, the Cross, Christmas music, even the word CHRISTmas has increased drasticly since hussein has been in office. Anybody else see this?? POWDERMAN.  :o :o
No, I've not noticed that. Has anyone else?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline powderman

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 07:51:17 AM »
File under "if you're not laughing, you're crying!"

One great way to push back against bigotry and intolerance is to run for local office. Municipal campaigns are much more simple than state or federal campaigns. Stay tuned to Conscience Cause for information on Campaign Schools in the new year!
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 08:30:43 AM »
my Faith is STRONGER than any organization or group of people who use each other as anchors against their own weaknesses.
Some people are not the great paragon of strength that you are. ::)
and nobody is trying to legislate religion against your will.  in fact, the opposite is happening as the government is forcing God out of every facet of our lives.  remember the DNC convention where they voted three times to leave God out of the platform??
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline Hairy Chest

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 11:41:49 AM »
Christian memorials are not immune either from those who vigorously oppose them.  Who is it who really wants to remove Christian symbols?  Let's delve in a little deeper.  Awww, I see!  Things look very clear now!  To fix a problem you must first identity it.  The LA Times has helped us do that.   8)

LA Times article:
Quote
Jewish war veterans, atheists and the ACLU have sued to have the cross removed from public property.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/06/us-supreme-court-declines-mount-soledad-cross-appeal.html

Study after study has shown how dangerous distracted driving is yet people continue to talk on their cell phones while driving. Driving in the U.S. requires your full attention. Many states and countries have made it illegal to use a cell phone while operating a motor vehicle and the federal government should follow their lead. Banning the use of cell phones while driving would have the added benefit of making the no-texting law enforceable.

Offline finisher

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 04:05:16 PM »
my Faith is STRONGER than any organization or group of people who use each other as anchors against their own weaknesses.
Some people are not the great paragon of strength that you are. ::)
and nobody is trying to legislate religion against your will.  in fact, the opposite is happening as the government is forcing God out of every facet of our lives. remember the DNC convention where they voted three times to leave God out of the platform??
*********
The way I see it, the government is forcing religion in general out of every aspect of GOVERNMENT. The only other ethical alternative I see is to allow the representation of every other faith of which the American population is composed regardless of proportion. To do other wise is blatant ALIENATION of citizens as well as service members.


I served along side Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and even Muslims during my service. Had my tail saved by a Muslim by the name of Maltez and a Jew named Levinson and at that time I was an atheist and they both knew it.


One can split hairs all day as a fine line between ethics and religious morality. Frankly, looking back through history, I find the realm of politics and government (even ours) to be almost completely devoid of anything even resembling ethics or morality.


In the same way that we can take so many long haired scruffy young adults with one foot hovering over the legal system; shave his head, put a snazzy uniform on him and then call him a "fine young service man" to me is just like the government trying to save moral and ethical face or the military trying to pass themselves off as "peace makers" by flying the religious (and Christian no less) flag around because MANY, and I mean MANY of the guys that I knew in the service were outright animals and that snazzy uniform didn't change a gol darned thing! Also, The superiors under whom I served never pretended to be in the business of anything else other than waging war and crushing the enemy and I respected them for that...peace makers, my tail!!!


So I view any government or military sanctioned display of religious practice (especially when it is preferential) as blatant hypocrisy and quite frankly, an insult to any faith, particularly Christianity as I understand it.


As for the statement that I highlighted in red; only you as an individual have the power to do that. Unless your government actually composes such an extremely large "facet" of your life that you would allow it so much power.


As always, peace to you all and thanks for keeping me on my toes where I should always be (because there is no rest for the wicked  ;D ).
Finisher

Offline Defoe

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2012, 06:13:37 AM »
Finisher, I'm truly sorry that you have no hope for eternity with The Lord.
I'll pray for you.

Offline finisher

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 06:15:05 PM »
Finisher, I'm truly sorry that you have no hope for eternity with The Lord.
I'll pray for you.
**************
I never said that, Can't imagine how you come up with such a notion.  But thanks, let me know when and what kind of answer you get.

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 02:56:45 AM »

The way I see it, the government is forcing religion in general out of every aspect of GOVERNMENT.
Somehow I just can't see a highschool football game as GOVERNMENT.

I'll try to answer your question to wharf rat since he doesn't seem to be on line.
your posts all seem to point toward atheism, not bowing for prayer etc., so if you don't believe that there is a God,  then you have no hope for eternity with God.  it's simple really... and I thought he said it very nicely.

This also from finisher.


I served along side Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and even Muslims during my service. Had my tail saved by a Muslim by the name of Maltez and a Jew named Levinson and at that time I was an atheist and they both knew it.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline finisher

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 08:27:10 PM »

The way I see it, the government is forcing religion in general out of every aspect of GOVERNMENT.
Somehow I just can't see a highschool football game as GOVERNMENT.

I'll try to answer your question to wharf rat since he doesn't seem to be on line.
your posts all seem to point toward atheism, not bowing for prayer etc., so if you don't believe that there is a God,  then you have no hope for eternity with God.  it's simple really... and I thought he said it very nicely.

This also from finisher.


I served along side Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and even Muslims during my service. Had my tail saved by a Muslim by the name of Maltez and a Jew named Levinson and AT THAT TIME I was an atheist and they both knew it.
**************
Said simply, My belief AT THIS TIME is "simply not in the in the same manner or even most likely the same context or concept as yours. How hard is that to understand  ??? ?

Seriously, If it's a problem with your eyes, I'd understand, but perhaps I can clarify (what I thought to be quite plain) what I said earlier; "at that time".

My naval service spanned three enlistments plus active reserve time. At that time in question, I had been in the service for 27 months, I was an E5 2nd class PO (or Equivalent three stripe for you Leathernecks and Dogfaces), yes it can be done if you're motivated but more importantly, know the game going in.

And yes I was a pretty burnt out on organized imposition of religion; Mormon church, catholic church and school; Four Square and Baptist on the other side of the Family. Lived next to Seventh Day Adventists.

My brother even had a Jewish buddy up the street who was tight enough with my brother to invite him to his Barmitzvah, back then an invite like that was an honor. An intimate look at Judaism can shed quite a bit of light on other faiths.

I had a very tightly wound Muslim friend  my freshman year in Catholic tech school. Kid was a math genius and really nice guy, parents good people also. He used to get teased and harassed incessantly for his faith even though.., other than looking Arab, one would never know anything about his beliefs because he didn't go around shoving it in peoples faces, imposing it upon others, or criticizing others.

Anyway, I digress, I was pretty certain at that time  that most of the people I knew were pretty much crazy when it came to religion and faith. and that it was there understanding... or lack of, all their different doctrines and beliefs that made them that way.

But in the duration of my service I had many... how can I generalize here, "life changing moments", epiphanies if you will regarding our origins and a great many aspects of the world in which we think we live. The time came for the military and I to part ways because we NOW had to different missions in mind and I was no longer obligated to unquestioningly enforce the will of policy makers of any kind.

NOPE! I was now on what I still consider to be a life long search for THE REAL policy maker or makerS because the ones down here claiming to KNOW, (but in truth only believe, and whose to say how TRULY) and to have interpretive understanding of these things which have been pondered by some of the most powerful minds of our history, all seem to have there heads wedged where the sun doesn't shine.

Want a job done right, do it your self. And like one of the books says, ..."the church of god is within you". At this time, I very much do believe in something.
But I'm not going to stop...no, LIMIT myself to the CLAIMED interpretive understanding of even JUST the entire sum of every "all holy book" and scripture WRITTEN BY THE HAND OF A MAN from every faith on the planet.
This is because I'm hungry for truth in knowledge and experience. And the books and Sunday visits just weren't satisfying that hunger.
And I have no agenda other than taking it with me when I go underway to "other shores". What everyone does with there own time is on them.

I figure, some ones gonna be there waiting to ask me how my experience was and what did I learn (if anything). So I'd at least like to be an interesting guest instead of just another sheep.
With any luck, it might just delay my being "transferred to some "hot place", or being sent back to this rock in one form or another for "not grasping 'the concept'", or any one of the alternative destinations that the faiths of the world have to offer.

I can tolerate any... how do all the "CONVENTIONAL" believers put it...? unholy  ::)   and evil things that this world and its inhabitants can shove in my face (and trust me, I've seen it all and have at times been a direct participant). MY church of my "god" is within me.The "evil"  ::)  and the "unholiness"  ::)  of others is theirs and no one else's, and it has no  power over MY weaknesses. Only I wield that power. And I openly accept accountability for my own.

But people in general, being as weak and feeble minded as history has shown, I guess will continue to look for their strength in reminders  like churches and arrogant, judgmental, and even alienating communities;  in images, rituals, and even laws of man for their guidance towards there destinies... rather than look within themselves and and accept responsibility for themselves of their own actions and their own destinies.

I can understand, it seems to me a much harder road to travel alone and without a crutch like a building (where we go to ...compare clothing  ::)  ), or a nativity scene, or group prayer.

Kind of like leaving home for the first time. But wasn't "dad" proud.

And that is what I believe and that belief is not open to interpretation by anyone else except myself, and  "god", and upon whomever "god" may see as "compatible" enough to enable with the seeing of the world through my eyes.

One has to keep an open mind, a broad view of the horizons, and a long, long range of vision, while keeping with the first law of the sea by passing on what they've learned (hey I'm an old sailor) or they can go adrift without knowing it for...? ....lifetimes?

A wise, crusty, old dive chief, who has since sailed on, once told me that only foolishness and evil think and deal in absolutes. Thanks Senior, for your guidance and passing that one down to me. I really needed to hear it AT THAT TIME.

Peace to you all.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: US Navy cancels nativity scene, yep, aetheists.
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2012, 11:46:20 PM »
Be prepared, at all times, to give an apology for the hope that is in you.
Paul gave no venomous exchange on Mars Hill to the non-believers.
You just give account for the hope within YOU and pray that the Holy Spirit will open hearts.
Your job is done.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD