Author Topic: Handy Rifle Accuracy. HELP!A (Read 1331 times)

Dee · « **on:** December 23, 2012, 12:23:50 PM »

A police Sgt. friend of mine stopped me today and asked for help. He bought his son a Handi in 243 and has it scope mounted. 1st shot, dead center. Rest go left and right, about 4 to 6 inches. CURE?

Thanks Dee,

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2012, 12:34:21 PM »

Start by reading the Handi Basics 101 sticky, after those are covered, try again, there are some simple but important steps to take for consistent accuracy.

Tim

hoytcanon · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2012, 12:38:04 PM »

Check the scope rail and rings first... make sure they are locked down tight. Then if there is still a problem, look at the scope... try a trusted and proven optic. Check the forearm and see if it is off center with it tight (and contacting barrel)... if it is, use a dowel and sand paper to relieve it on the contact side.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 24, 2012, 03:49:10 AM »

Sounds exactly like a loose scope or rail or even a broken scope internally. Take a hold of it and feel for wiggle.
Start with taking the scope and rail completely off and starting over with the mount up. Once the scope is in hand hold it up to your ear and shake it, it shouldnt rattle, but even if it doesnt that does not mean it is good but if it does its junk for sure.

Dee · « **Reply #4 on:** December 26, 2012, 10:39:43 AM »

Everything with the exception of "semi-floating the barrel" has already been done. I did suggest on my on to put a rubber "o-ring" on the forearm screw between the barrel and forearm. Will that help or was it a bad idea? I am not a handi rifle person because of the many accuracy issues inherent with that make of rifle.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #5 on:** December 26, 2012, 12:14:03 PM »

Quote from: Dee on December 26, 2012, 10:39:43 AM

Everything with the exception of "semi-floating the barrel" has already been done. I did suggest on my on to put a rubber "o-ring" on the forearm screw between the barrel and forearm. Will that help or was it a bad idea? I am not a handi rifle person because of the many accuracy issues inherent with that make of rifle.

I completely agree with Hoyt and gcrank1

You did not mention the distance you are shooting, BUT there aint a forend or bedding problem thats gonna push bullets BOTH left and right on subsiuent bullets...

The ''O'' ring is always or almost always a good idea, but its not gonna help on this one.

I'll say its almost gotta be the scope or its mount... Easiest way is to simply pull it apart, CLEAN THREADS and HOLES and re mount with good lock tite on the base using a KNOWN good scope and quality rings.

Also, look hard at the lug, if cracked, things like this can happen to...

IF new (er) maybe simply return it to factory...

Good luck,
CW

cwlongshot · « **Reply #6 on:** December 26, 2012, 12:15:00 PM »

Double post.

Site giving LOTS of errors... connection errors and lost posts... Just saying...

CW

Dee · « **Reply #7 on:** December 26, 2012, 01:22:18 PM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on December 26, 2012, 12:14:03 PM

Quote from: Dee on December 26, 2012, 10:39:43 AM
Everything with the exception of "semi-floating the barrel" has already been done. I did suggest on my on to put a rubber "o-ring" on the forearm screw between the barrel and forearm. Will that help or was it a bad idea? I am not a handi rifle person because of the many accuracy issues inherent with that make of rifle.

I completely agree with Hoyt and gcrank1

You did not mention the distance you are shooting, BUT there aint a forend or bedding problem thats gonna push bullets BOTH left and right on subsiuent bullets...

The ''O'' ring is always or almost always a good idea, but its not gonna help on this one.

I'll say its almost gotta be the scope or its mount... Easiest way is to simply pull it apart, CLEAN THREADS and HOLES and re mount with good lock tite on the base using a KNOWN good scope and quality rings.

Also, look hard at the lug, if cracked, things like this can happen to...

IF new (er) maybe simply return it to factory...

Good luck,
CW

Like I said. All that has been examined and their good, and have tried two scopes. Other than a possible factory QC issue, harmonics are the issue on all rifles in getting them to group, after the bedding issues, mounts, scopes ect.
I got a pm on a chamber issue that would fall under QC, but I'll relay the info, and Thanks for the help. If any body gets another idea, I'm open for suggestions.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #8 on:** December 26, 2012, 01:25:28 PM »

Have you shot it yourself Dee?

CW

gcrank1 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 26, 2012, 01:42:56 PM »

+1 that, inspect and shoot it yourself.
FWIW, when young and in my first real shop job (too many years ago) I learned that the hard way in taking too much to heart the analysis of the person who brought the problem job in. Their 'explanation' for the job ticket was just a place to narrow it down and start (as in, if they knew so much, why did they bring it to the shop?).
I would drop the forearm and give it the 'shake test' right off to see if its a loose action, and shoot it if tight. If it does that to you go for the rail and scope remount, and use one of your known good scopes.
BTW, one of the hardest things to tell someone is they cant shoot for beans, especially if they have been 'shooting' for years.

Dee · « **Reply #10 on:** December 26, 2012, 02:29:59 PM »

Actually no I haven't however, this particular officer (Sgt.) shoots matches, and at my age is most likely a better shot, (but maybe not), I haven't shot against him. He knows his guns, but like me not much about the handi other than the basics, and so on. I get with him, and try the rifle myself.

JamesIII · « **Reply #11 on:** December 26, 2012, 03:02:34 PM »

I am with Gcrank1 on this one. If you are sure about the scope and mount, then take the forearm off and check for movement when closed. Heck, go ahead and shoot a few rounds with the forearm off, just remember the barrel can fall off when ya open it! (that can be a real "duh" moment) JamesIII

blind ear · « **Reply #12 on:** December 26, 2012, 04:08:23 PM »

Did you inspect the muzzle crown real close and look at the rifleings at the muzzle and down the bore? ear

tacklebury · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2012, 04:21:38 PM »

Check the gas release pattern at the muzzle after shooting a couple bullets also. If there is an oddness to the pattern, there could be an issue with crown as stated.

Ranger99 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2012, 04:41:16 PM »

you may want to look down the
barrel to make sure it actually
has "real" rifling, and not the
"zig-zag" rifling i found in that
one a while back.
btw, i never did get it to group
yet after they sent it back with
a new barrel.
ran out of time to fiddle with it.

gendoc · « **Reply #15 on:** December 27, 2012, 02:22:46 AM »

could it be that he did'nt let tha barrel cool between shots.......

that happens all tha time !!
i've seen many 6mm - .277 barrels flex on our SM cam in tha test cell. not only handi's,
most any high pressure.. much less any caliber pencil or standard conture style barrel.
not just guessing, itsa reality................

you said it yourself DEE.....harmonics

mannyrock · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2012, 04:54:49 AM »

If the scope, mounts, and muzzle crown check out, then I would make sure that he is letting the rifle cool at least 3 minutes between shots, with the action open and empty.

My brother had a Handi in .30-06 that he swore wouldn't shoot. First shot was always really good, but then they would go all over the place.

I took it from him, shot a five shot group with 3 minutes of cooling in between each shot, and they were all in a 1.5 inch group. He was only letting about 30 seconds pass between shots. I think Handies are ultra sensitive to this.

Mannyrock

cwlongshot · « **Reply #17 on:** December 27, 2012, 05:10:46 AM »

The whole thing here that's a tell tale is the SIDE TO SIDE bulletin movement. And the fact that it is such a large amount of movement.

Just a bad barrel would send bullets everywhere as if no rifling or a shotgun pattern. The fact that its shooting on a horizontal line to me, reaks of the siting device problems. I suppose excessive side to side movement could do this but I have had some pretty loose specimens and not seen this. BUT first time for all...

I would love to be able to examine this one my self!! I do like a challenge.

I did not hear or read, how old is it as a return to the factory would probably save tones of aggravation and all this speculation at the same time.

CW

This gun dosent have open sites by chance?

Dee · « **Reply #18 on:** December 27, 2012, 06:47:45 AM »

No open sights, I did ask that. I'll see him in a few days and give him what you guys suggested.

gendoc · « **Reply #19 on:** December 27, 2012, 07:21:42 AM »

Harmonics will cause much more than verticle movement....

cwlongshot · « **Reply #20 on:** December 27, 2012, 07:27:02 AM »

Quote from: gendoc on December 27, 2012, 07:21:42 AM

Harmonics will cause much more than verticle movement....

I agree John! My lil H&R 22LR shoots patterns without the limbsaver "donut"!!! With it it shoots dimes. Still not great but worlds better then before! That's all harmonics causing its inaccuracy!

Just seems because its only horizontal there is more to the story/problem. Unless it is everywhere and the shooter has only noticed left and right...

Dee · « **Reply #21 on:** December 27, 2012, 07:35:12 AM »

I just picked up on something I didn't mean to relay to the problem. "Horizontal"! The rifle throws the shots everywere, like a bolt action loose in the stock. I believe harmonics is the key here, but harmonics is a funny thing. Stress in a barrel can cause this, but this seems common in Handi from my reading here. The rifle locks up tight, but like the first shot is the good shot. No way should a single shot start throwing shots 4"s after one shot. Do we need to start over?

gendoc · « **Reply #22 on:** December 27, 2012, 07:44:59 AM »

Tell the young man to shoot once, then wait
3-5 min before shoot'n again.

petemi · « **Reply #23 on:** December 27, 2012, 08:01:37 AM »

The only Handi I've had that wouldn't shoot after doing everything in the FAQs was bought used with matching numbers on lug and frame. It shot the same as my 20 ga. with #3 buck at 25 yards. Brian said "Send it to me". I did. It came back with a new tack driving barrel......when all else fails.

Pete

cwlongshot · « **Reply #24 on:** December 27, 2012, 08:23:02 AM »

Quote from: Dee on December 27, 2012, 07:35:12 AM

I just picked up on something I didn't mean to relay to the problem. "Horizontal"! The rifle throws the shots everywere, like a bolt action loose in the stock. I believe harmonics is the key here, but harmonics is a funny thing. Stress in a barrel can cause this, but this seems common in Handi from my reading here. The rifle locks up tight, but like the first shot is the good shot. No way should a single shot start throwing shots 4"s after one shot. Do we need to start over?

Yup that little tid-bit changes ALLOT!!!

Now it could be and likely is a number of things!!

Start with the basics... Assume NOTHING!

Is the stocks tight?

Does the stock bolt protrude into the action so it contacts parts?

Is the latch clean and dry?

How is the lock up?

How is the forend fit? Tight loose somewhere in between?

Is the rifle being snapped closed or gingerly closed? (Consistency is key)

Is SAME ammo being used? Is it reloads or factory?

As suggested look at the barrel, start with a CLEAN BARREL! How does the crown look? How is the fit to the receiver? How is the headspace?

How is the trigger? Very heavy trigger is very detrimental to accurate shooting. ESP with new shooters!

You said the scope is properly mounted. ( I would do it over myself after thou roughly cleaning the threads and holes. Then use lock rite AND slow 24 hours MINIMUM before shooting! Mount a KNOWN good scope.

When shooting try it without forend. Look for differences.

Allow the gun to completely cool between shots. ( we are looking for the problem here.)

Be sure the rifle is properly rested. You do NOT any it shot off a hard rest. When resting the forwards rest should be at or close to the hinge.

Be sure the trigger is completely pulled to the rear.

Good luck!

CW