Best type of crimp for 45-70

[Grumpybear]

I have some cast boolets for my 45-70 that drop into the case after sizeing them. If I dont size the case then they are hard to press in. These boolets also have no connalure on them.
 
I usually dont add lube in the top grease grove so it can be used for a crimping grove but it takes a lot of crimp to hold em. The boolets move up and down a little and rotate in the case. I dont worry to much about it but would like a better crimp to help keep dampness out if I store them for a length of time.
 
I think RCBS or Redding makes a taper crimp and Lee has a FCD and I have roll crimp dies, I just would like some others thoughts on the best way to deal with this.
 
Thanks Grumpy

[tacklebury]

I use the FCD dies personally.  Never have an issue though some seem to think they crush down the bullet.  I adjust it to just touch and then turn in only a little further.  Holds them well, but if you want to avoid dampness, you should use finger nail polish around case mouth and primer or a product like hornady's primer sealant or similar products:
 
http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/primer-sealer/hornady-one-shot-primer-sealer-prod54410.aspx
 
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/954332/markron-custom-bullet-and-primer-sealer-1-2-oz-liquid

[gendoc]

depends on what ya shoot'n.....1-holers need no crimp in my book, but thatsa jus me 
nowa guidegun needsa crimp !!! and its important that you experiment to find the best way.
i have several levers, traps, #1's & handi's in 45/70 ana they perfer different touches.
good luck with your research and have fun safely
 

[Grumpybear]

Mostly I just want the 405 and 500 spitizer to just not fall all the way into the case. This is a single shot handi so my shoulder is the only recoil consideration.
 
It is frustrating whe the boolet falls out or to far in tho, just trying to fix that. I dont know why i have so much trouble geting the neck tension to hold it but with only 1 45-70 to shoot at the momunt I usually dont FL size em.
 
Even if I could I dono if I would wana shoot that 500 in ne thing other then a SS. min. load of 3031 under 500 gr at 1200 fps has a suprising amount of back thrust.
 
Grumpy

[quickdtoo]

Have you shot them yet? More than likely it won't shoot well if the bullet is that small, generally a cast bullet that just fits in unsized fired brass will work best, for a Handi the best choice would normally be .459" and larger, I have six 45-70 Handis, all will chamber .460" 405gr cast bullets, .459" shoot fine in those I've tried them in. I use the Lee FCD on all 45-70 rounds, cast or jacketed.

Tim

[cudatruck]

am i following this correctly? after firing the bullet fits tight? after sizing the bullet is loose? wrong expander? i have not had this happen to the few i have re loaded so i am trying to learn so i can be on the look out for any problems. this seems contrary to what i have seen with mine. i have to use the lyman m die to open the case just a little to seat the bullet without shaving lead. they fit very tight. i use the lee fcd just as a matter of habbit. i crimp everything. probably not needed. am i doing something wrong?

[Grumpybear]

No cuda, my set up is a little messy. The chamber is generus (not sure of chamber size) and the bore tight (.457). So, once fired brass if not resized is loose on the boolit sized at .458. If I size the brass the neck tension is good and will hold the brass if I open it carefully, but that means more sizeing on the brass. With the generous chamber, Id like to not work the brass by FL sizeing.
 
What I want to do is not resize the brass, which means its loose on the boolit and then use a slight crimp on them to keep the boolit in place. A roll crimp doesnt work well because of the boolit style.
 
The second part is, the large lead Im trying has not crimp groove on em so a small crimp falls in the empty grease groove and the boolit twists in the case and moves back and forth.
 
Whoever thought that loading a boolit and shooting it would get so complicated.    So ne way it sounlds like your doing everything right, You just have less problems then I do. 
 
It also looks like folks like the Lee FCD so I will order some up and try em and see if they will add some neck tension back into the case neck and hold these boolits in place.
 
It sure is hard geting all the varibles down in text at one time, seems my brain works faster then my fingers, not a bad problems to have but makes comunication dificult.    And i can play with the smilies.
 
Thanks Grumpy

[corbanzo]

That's a case sizing problem right there.
 
When you size the case, you shouldn't be able to put the bullet in.
 
When loading lead, you should need to put a bell on the case (not expand! just bell the mouth so the bullet will sit in the top)
 
Then you should need to push the lead down into the casing with your die.  The bullet should be pushing out on the copper, and it will hold solid.  The only "crimping" that should be necessary in a .45-70 is to smooth the bell back down, not to crimp on the bullet. 
 
There are some dies that size a little small and you expand them back out (i.e. 458lott) and some dies in .45-70 you may do this, but ONLY if the case is so tight the bullets won't load straight.... but in the end, after sizing, the bell should be the only part of the case neck you can put the bullet into without your press.

[45-70.gov]

size slugs to 459

[GH1]

Since you have no crimp groove I think the Lee Factory Crimp Die is about your only option. They do work well though, so it's not a bad option to have.
GH1

[corbanzo]

Any crimp die will work without a groove, but you just have to barely hit the bottom of the crimp.  If you can't get the whole bell with a roll crimp die you are belling way too much in the first place and are just wearing our your brass.

[stimpylu32]

I have some cast boolets for my 45-70 that drop into the case after sizeing them. If I dont size the case then they are hard to press in. These boolets also have no connalure on them.
 
I usually dont add lube in the top grease grove so it can be used for a crimping grove but it takes a lot of crimp to hold em. The boolets move up and down a little and rotate in the case. I dont worry to much about it but would like a better crimp to help keep dampness out if I store them for a length of time.
 
I think RCBS or Redding makes a taper crimp and Lee has a FCD and I have roll crimp dies, I just would like some others thoughts on the best way to deal with this.
 
Thanks Grumpy

What the red and underlined parts are telling me is that you have a tight chamber and your belling too much = wrong die set-up , as for the crimp , with cast bullets you can use a roll crimp anywere on the bullet , not just in a lube or crimp groove , the lead is soft enough that you can crimp at any point you need .
 
stimpy

[Hairy Chest]

Case tension holds all 45-70 bullets.