tips for accuracy/consistency for the huntsman 50 cal.

[Whiterabbitttttt]

Hello,
 
I'm having issues with accuracy with my muzzleloader, need some tips. My huntsman is capable of 1 inch at 50 yards, I sometimes get lucky and a couple of the holes are pretty close to each other. But it's not consistent.
 
Let me be clear. My goal is not to consistently hit 1" at 50 yards. My goal is to find a loading and shooting method that is "robust" enough to hit the black at 100 yards (roughly 7" round). Minute of 2-liter bottle (or better-than-minute-of-milk-jug), while allowing me to load quickly and shoot quickly (relatively of course) throughou a range session, let's say no more than 30 shots.
 
Basically, a lazy-load and shoot. When I want to take my time and "do things right", I have a very fine flintlock I love to shoot slow and deliberate. Afterall, that's the point of muzzleloading, yes? The inline is for down and durty lead chucking.
 
Anyways, I DO NOT mean the tips for consistency. The usuall stuff like swab the bore every shot, seat the identical same way, with the same force, etc etc etc are not "robust". They are time consuming and lead to the 1" at 50 yard accuracy I don't need. I'd like "good enough" for this project.
 
That being said, what I DON'T know is what can give without excessively harming group size. For example, Should the bore be dry when shooting sabots, or should there be lube ahead of the sabot? I know if I put lube ahead of the sabot I can shoot all day without ever swabbing. But if that opens groups from minute-of-soda-bottle to off-paper at 100 yards, obviously that has to stop.
 
In short, what I'm looking for are the factors that I can follow to turn this gun into a range gun steels plinker. What's necessary to get me "good enough", and whats not important to strictly follow unless I want the holes to touch at 50.
 
At least, what YOU'VE noticed your huntsman is quite sensitive to, and what it's less sensitive to. That can help me quite a bit!
 
Thanks guys.
 
-S

[YRUpunting?]

The usuall stuff like swab the bore every shot, seat the identical same way, with the same force, etc etc etc are not "robust".
 

Mine is a Sidekick.  In my opinion you are cleaning the bore way too much.

[Whiterabbitttttt]

My goal is to actually not clean the bore at all until I get home. To figure out a way to shoot sabots without swabbing at all for roughly 30 rounds. 15 would be fine too. I'm willing ot take a hit on accuracy, but I want to be "in the black" when bench shooting at 100 yards. that's maybe 6". If I can get there then I can hold 100% of my shots on for a 12" steel unsupported offhand which is going to really be what this gun is used for.
 
Of course if I do NOTHING I can load twice before the fouling gets too severe. I have found that (and my local muzzleloader shop recommended) one shot case lube to sofen fouling and for that it works amazingly well.
 
If I load a sabot then spray the bore with one shot, I never have to swab the thing, ever. I've learned I can keep almost every shot on a 12" steel offhand at 100y doing this, but oddly struggle to keep shots anywhere near black at 100, and group sizes are huge at 50y. I'm using the same resting technique as the 20ga slug gun and the 357 max, I don't believe the resting method is a factor... Then I read on the internet (which is always right, right?) that people say "always shoot sabots through a DRY bore". Well, the fouling gets pretty tough, pretty fast without frequent swabbing.
 
And since it's a muzzleloader, there are way more variables at play than a cartridge gun. And being new to muzzleloading in general, I'm consulting the experts (you.)
 
Thanks for the input so far.
 
-S

[bubba]

Blackhorn 209 90 grains 240 grain 44 cal xtp  harvestor crush rib sabot  winchester primers.  Shoot a long time with no swabbing.  easy to load shoot very well. 

[Whiterabbitttttt]

no fouling buildup with 209?

[Doug B.]

Blackhorn 209 90 grains 240 grain 44 cal xtp  harvestor crush rib sabot  winchester primers.  Shoot a long time with no swabbing.  easy to load shoot very well.

I will attest to the accuracy and less fouling with the BH 209 and the same 240 grain, 44 caliber XTP and Harvestor crushed rib sabot, although I load only 85 grains of loose 209. Same results. Can shoot maybe 35 shots without swabbing. How's the last three shots at 60 yards with my Red Dot?



Please don't pay attention to the flyer. I DID know it wasn't a good "squeeze" immediately. I am VERY satisfied with this load in my Huntsman. These were the first 6 shots out of a clean bore and I did do some slight sight adjustment between the first three and the last three shots.

[Whiterabbitttttt]

I may have to try BH209 now.
 
Just so I understand absolutely clear, you start your range day with a DRY bore, drypatch the oil all out, then just load and go (roughly 35 times, give or take 10 times) powder sabot-bullet, primer, bang, repeat? no nothing else in between?
 
Thats exactly what I'm looking for. Your accuracy also, is more than i need. would be good news.

[Doug B.]

 
Just so I understand absolutely clear, you start your range day with a DRY bore, drypatch the oil all out, then just load and go (roughly 35 times, give or take 10 times) powder sabot-bullet, primer, bang, repeat? no nothing else in between?

Exactly what I do.

[Whiterabbitttttt]

Time to call my gunshops looking for BH209.

[mannyrock]

Whiterabbit,
 
   I hope you will post the results when you can your can of BH 209.  This is an interesting thread.
 
   Now I know you don't want to hear this, but when I go to the range, I take an old musket cap tin, put in some T/C white bore cleaner, and drop in a stack of patches, so they are wet.  Then next to this, I put a stack of dry patches.
 
   Using a spare utility rod, with a round jag on the end, I swab one wet patch (both sides), and then one dry patch (both sides), between each shot.  I have timed myself.  It takes 20 seconds.
 
    Not only do I get really great accuracy, but when it is time to go home, my Huntsman rifle is clean!  I just run two extra wet patches, plus one dry patch, plus one oil patch through it before I leave the bench. This takes about one minute.   Done.  No cleaning job at the kitchen table.
 
   Would an extra 20 seconds between each shot really slow you down that much?
 
   I never use butter bore or other lubes.  Waste of time. Creates erratic groups.
 
  Regards, Mannyrock
 

[Busta]

If you intend on using Blackhorn 209, you will need an aftermarket breech plug. The OEM breech plug with the orange primer carriers will not be reliable.
 
I have been shooting Blackhorn 209 for 5 years now and have tested it with at least a dozen different custom breech plug configurations for the Huntsman and Sidekick alone. The OEM plug is not reliable in the least.
 
Do yourself a favor, and do a search for "carrierless breech plug."
 
 
 
 

[Whiterabbitttttt]

Thank you. I have two alternatives available to me for using both LRM's and really strong 209's (hot 209's from APP)
 
Sadly, I called all my dealers, and none stock BH209. One even said "I have no idea what that is."
 
So i'll be delayed trying this regardless.
 

[Graybeard]

Let's bring this one back up and see if folks might want to talk more about it.