Remington 870 and "Poor Man Slugs"...(HD)

[evan1395]

So went up shooting yesterday with my brother and his buddy. He recently learned about "Cut Shotgun Shells", better known as the Poor Mans Slug. I was a bit skeptical about these, still kind of am after even shooting 10-15 myself.
My question is, are there any side effects or anything bad to come of this from shooting these? Besides not being able to cycle and eject the 1" casing, are there any risks it can lead to you or your firearm? They surely have the slug effect, and quite fun to shoot if I must say.
Why don't people just buy birdshot and do this instead of getting your special barrel and spend over a dollar a piece on real slugs? These really seem to do the trick, and stay relatively accurate. Anyway here are a few videos from yesterday, enjoy!
Looking forward to some feed back on these "Poor Mans Slugs". Thanks!
-Evan
How To - Poor Mans Slug)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYF2qCCjy2g
Slug VS 2 Liter Bottle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J24YXQKcdY
10+1 Round magazine in the 870
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGFWbrFk48Q
 

[Dee]

In my part of the country we called them "ringed shells", and I have shot a few, back in the 60s. As I got older I have often wondered about the "chamber pressure" caused by cramming not only the wadding and shot thru that thin shotgun barrel, but the shell casin also in a "choked barrel".
I know a few folks that have been shoot'em all their lives with no mishaps, but I myself am not so sure it would be good idea.

[jhm]

     I remember somewhere in the Mich. hunting regulations that they were ( Illigal ) havent read or hunted in Mich. for over 30 yrs. though.  Jim

[evan1395]

I also wondered about the full front half of the casing along with the wad, shooting down the barrel. More concerned about ym safety and others around me as opposed to the health of the gun barrel. Just as long as they have no chance of going "haywire" and screwing someone up whille shooting them, or even the bystanders for that matter.
 
That was my main concern.

[Luckyducker]

I have never been around the "poor man's slug" but I have a somewhat interesting story and though wild, is never- the- less true.  Back when deer hunting became legal in Kansas (don't remember the year) my uncle didn't have a deer rifle and him and an old bachelor coot of a friend got the idea of finding a ball bearing that would just barely fit down uncle's Nobel 12 gauge pump shotgun barrel, which they found.  Then they removed the lead shot from a 2 3/4" Magnum shotshell and put the ball bearing in it's place, loaded it in the gun and shot it into a 12"-14" stump to see how far it would penetrate.  It shot fine but the bearing went through the stump like it wasn't even an obstacle for it.  They had no idea where their projectile went and it scared them to the point that uncle went to town and bought himself a new Remington 30-06 model 740.  Never underestimate an old farmer's resourcefulness!

[hillbill]

at one time i did a bit of testing with cut shells.not real seintific testing but testing none the less.at over 25 yrds they tended to shoot very low compared to other rounds.this mite have something to do with the friction in the full choke gun i used.i would guess they mite do better in a cylinder bore choke.as you are adding the thickness of the plastic to the shot charge.
i fired them into a skinned deer ribcage.penetration was not impressive but id imagine a 1 1/8 oz chunk of anything traveling at around 1000 fps or better would be very stunning and life threatening at close range.close range is the key.
 
i also used a single shot so i cud chek the bore after each shot.

[Hairy Chest]

at one time i did a bit of testing with cut shells.not real seintific testing but testing none the less.at over 25 yrds they tended to shoot very low compared to other rounds.this mite have something to do with the friction in the full choke gun i used.i would guess they mite do better in a cylinder bore choke.as you are adding the thickness of the plastic to the shot charge.
i fired them into a skinned deer ribcage.penetration was not impressive but id imagine a 1 1/8 oz chunk of anything traveling at around 1000 fps or better would be very stunning and life threatening at close range.close range is the key.
 
i also used a single shot so i cud chek the bore after each shot.

I tried #8 shot AA Gray Hull load thru Rem 870 18.5 barrel and they were dead on at 25 yds.  Three shots knocked out the bullseye.  But then they are slow to load.  Not like .715" 550 grain RB's.  They too knock out bullseye but are going much faster in 3" shell, plus they load fast.   

[hillbill]

at one time i did a bit of testing with cut shells.not real seintific testing but testing none the less.at over 25 yrds they tended to shoot very low compared to other rounds.this mite have something to do with the friction in the full choke gun i used.i would guess they mite do better in a cylinder bore choke.as you are adding the thickness of the plastic to the shot charge.
i fired them into a skinned deer ribcage.penetration was not impressive but id imagine a 1 1/8 oz chunk of anything traveling at around 1000 fps or better would be very stunning and life threatening at close range.close range is the key.
 
i also used a single shot so i cud chek the bore after each shot.

I tried #8 shot AA Gray Hull load thru Rem 870 18.5 barrel and they were dead on at 25 yds.  Three shots knocked out the bullseye.  But then they are slow to load.  Not like .715" 550 grain RB's.  They too knock out bullseye but are going much faster in 3" shell, plus they load fast.   

was your gun improved cylinder or cylinder bore?im thinking ipc bore would work better than the full choke i used. and  a 3 inch shell mite print higher.i think the the full choke wud slow them down big time.
 

[FPH]

If you are asking about home defense ........ why not just use the shot as it comes.  Do you really need a slug?  If so, I would buy slugs. 

[mcwoodduck]

In my part of the country we called them "ringed shells", and I have shot a few, back in the 60s. As I got older I have often wondered about the "chamber pressure" caused by cramming not only the wadding and shot thru that thin shotgun barrel, but the shell casin also in a "choked barrel".
I know a few folks that have been shoot'em all their lives with no mishaps, but I myself am not so sure it would be good idea.

I am with Dee on this.  I would not want to do it in my guns. NC made them illegal as well as pouring wax or glue into the shot to make a slug.
But if the pressure were too great the crimp would open and the ringed/ cut part of the shell would lodge in the forcing cone and the wad and shot would sail out the front. 
ANd don't ask how I know but the rim would show signs if it was over pressured.  (DO not let anyone borrow your reloading machines and tell you he set it back the way you had it)

[mcwoodduck]

If you are asking about home defense ........ why not just use the shot as it comes.  Do you really need a slug?  If so, I would buy slugs.

Yes buy slugs.
The idea is if you are out bird hunting and something bad happens.
Bear chases you up a tree, what have you. then you can make a slug if you need in an emergency.
I for one would just carry a slug or two or some 00 buck if I thought the need would arise.

[FPH]

If you are asking about home defense ........ why not just use the shot as it comes.  Do you really need a slug?  If so, I would buy slugs.

Yes buy slugs.
The idea is if you are out bird hunting and something bad happens.
Bear chases you up a tree, what have you. then you can make a slug if you need in an emergency.
I for one would just carry a slug or two or some 00 buck if I thought the need would arise.

I agree with you in your scenario.  However, the HD in the title made me believe the OP was asking about home defense.

[mcwoodduck]

If you are asking about home defense ........ why not just use the shot as it comes.  Do you really need a slug?  If so, I would buy slugs.

Yes buy slugs.
The idea is if you are out bird hunting and something bad happens.
Bear chases you up a tree, what have you. then you can make a slug if you need in an emergency.
I for one would just carry a slug or two or some 00 buck if I thought the need would arise.

I agree with you in your scenario.  However, the HD in the title made me believe the OP was asking about home defense.

I understood the senario, the only place I can see using the cut / ringed shells is in an emergency when you have nothing else.
I have in my home scatter gun a few 1 1/8 oz #7.5 shells with a couple slugs and one 3" 00 Buck with 3 2/34" 00 buck loads for outside of the house.  I live in the middle of nowhere with a private zoo next door, as well as two different size cats, coyotes and Boars in the area. 
I see it easier to have real slugs and buck in hand when needed than having to be gentle with ringed shells or having to make them in the heat of the moment. 

[Lloyd Smale]

my old man killed a bunch of deer with them back when he was young and slugs were hard to find and to expensive for him. they worked but like others i wouldnt fool with them. Get a mold and make your own slugs out of wheel weights.

[Hairy Chest]

at one time i did a bit of testing with cut shells.not real seintific testing but testing none the less.at over 25 yrds they tended to shoot very low compared to other rounds.this mite have something to do with the friction in the full choke gun i used.i would guess they mite do better in a cylinder bore choke.as you are adding the thickness of the plastic to the shot charge.
i fired them into a skinned deer ribcage.penetration was not impressive but id imagine a 1 1/8 oz chunk of anything traveling at around 1000 fps or better would be very stunning and life threatening at close range.close range is the key.
 
i also used a single shot so i cud chek the bore after each shot.

I tried #8 shot AA Gray Hull load thru Rem 870 18.5 barrel and they were dead on at 25 yds.  Three shots knocked out the bullseye.  But then they are slow to load.  Not like .715" 550 grain RB's.  They too knock out bullseye but are going much faster in 3" shell, plus they load fast.   

was your gun improved cylinder or cylinder bore?im thinking ipc bore would work better than the full choke i used. and  a 3 inch shell mite print higher.i think the the full choke wud slow them down big time.

My gun's cylinder.  But of course I use a pistol grip stock, Mesa Tactical saddle with rail and tube red dot sight, so maybe that's why I can shoot 3" loads all day long.      

[charles p]

Just buy a few slugs.  In the overall cost of a total deer season, it shouldn't be an issue.

[Hairy Chest]

Just buy a few slugs.  In the overall cost of a total deer season, it shouldn't be an issue.

Many times I find store bought or made from a mold slugs fired from smooth bores.  They look unmarked and ready for reloading.  But that takes time, having to reload them.  Or I can just take my knife, make a few slits and be able to take down any game animal.  Not a bad bargain really, cutting shells.  Everybody should try it.  I learned about it on Graybeard. 

The important thing about information is quality versus quantity. 

[mcwoodduck]

Just buy a few slugs.  In the overall cost of a total deer season, it shouldn't be an issue.

Many times I find store bought or made from a mold slugs fired from smooth bores.  They look unmarked and ready for reloading.  But that takes time, having to reload them.  Or I can just take my knife, make a few slits and be able to take down any game animal.  Not a bad bargain really, cutting shells.  Everybody should try it.  I learned about it on Graybeard. 

The important thing about information is quality versus quantity.

One, you need to make sure it is legal to use them where you hunt.
two, it is comming out of a smooth bore, it will not have rifled marks. 
Again, great idea, but I would not recemend them unless it was an emergency.
And there could be a problem with multiple cut shells in a magazine and functioning or falling apart.

[Hairy Chest]

Just buy a few slugs.  In the overall cost of a total deer season, it shouldn't be an issue.

Many times I find store bought or made from a mold slugs fired from smooth bores.  They look unmarked and ready for reloading.  But that takes time, having to reload them.  Or I can just take my knife, make a few slits and be able to take down any game animal.  Not a bad bargain really, cutting shells.  Everybody should try it.  I learned about it on Graybeard. 

The important thing about information is quality versus quantity.

You can have a handful in your coat pocket and load them in the port. Big frickin deal. 
One, you need to make sure it is legal to use them where you hunt.
two, it is comming out of a smooth bore, it will not have rifled marks. 
Again, great idea, but I would not recemend them unless it was an emergency.
And there could be a problem with multiple cut shells in a magazine and functioning or falling apart.