Author Topic: Chronograph Recommendations? (Read 1831 times)

TommyD · « **on:** April 01, 2013, 03:24:44 AM »

My old Pact Chronograph has given me 20 years of service, but sadly I think that it's about to give up the ghost. So I'm looking to get a new one.

I would imagine that the technology has changed a bit in 20 years, so I am asking for advice on what's good on the market today.

I won't say that price is no object, but I am more interested in quality rather than the cheapest bargain out there. My price/performance point leans more to the performance end.

Tom

hamourkiller · « **Reply #1 on:** April 06, 2013, 11:43:10 AM »

This is my Recomendation

The Oehler model 35, just follow the link and you will find out cost (high) annd quality (high also)

I love mine and will never get a cheap one again.

http://www.oehler-research.com/model35.html

Hank

Hairy Chest · « **Reply #2 on:** April 06, 2013, 01:27:05 PM »

If you found the accurate load, then what will a chronograph tell you? I know it can be interesting, to know what the spread is, or velocity, etc. All boring information that doesn't improve what you are doing. As to problems, chances are it is a lighting issue. I'd fix what you have and wouldn't spend money on what's not necessary.
I have a PACT. It had some lighting issues, but I figured what to do to make it work. It, along with the skyscreens, sits under the bench, in the back because it doesn't get much use. Even if it did, there's nothing that it could do to make things better. Resist the temptation to have something "for fun." The fun will become a curse. The more you spend, the better you will expect it to work. At most you will know the velocity of something, but again, it's really not needed.

hamourkiller · « **Reply #3 on:** April 06, 2013, 02:35:44 PM »

This is one way it helps me.

I like to load for my M1 Garands, they have a very specific pressure curve they are designed to run at. So I like to match M2 Ball or M2 AP ball spec's when reloading for the weapon.

Spec's are:

M2 is 2740 FPS @ 78 feet (2800 at muzzle)-150 gr bullet-50 grs or less of 4895 powder

M2 AP is 2680 @ 78 feet (2700 at muzzle)-165 gr bullet 55 grs or less of Ball powder (852 I think)

When I work up my loads I need to know what velocity I am getting at what charges. I want the right velocity with out exceeding the powder weight. I use surplus powders and this lets me adjust to changing lots of powder. My current lot gives me the required velocities for both weights of bullets at 50 grs. Next lot might be less or more. That is what the load development is for.

Another is cast boolit load developement in rifles. My current project has my 165 gr 311-165 FN bullet from my Win 30-30 going 2150. No leading with my # 2 alloy so I was able to go to a softer and cheaper alloy and find no leading with it at the same velocity.
When I start my 348 win load development I know I should be able to get this same speed without leading, if I do not then I know that I have a bullet fit problem and not an alloy issue.

This is just a couple of ways I use my chronograph.

Hank

Land_Owner · « **Reply #4 on:** April 06, 2013, 11:32:51 PM »

Couple of threads going simultaneously in two different Forums this morning.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,278402.msg1099692923.html#msg1099692923

I can understand hamourhkiller's use, which is certainly different from my own. For me, knowing velocity, knowing round to round consistency, and knowing range leads to high confidence in the bullet's path, making me a more confident hunter.

A lot of truth in this:

Quote

The fun will become a curse. The more you spend, the better you will expect it to work.

Do I really need one? No. I didn't buy the Cadillac either. Is it "fun"? I suppose so. I am neutral on this. Is it a "chore"? No. Do I use it "all the time"? No. Am I going to set up to shoot for groups anyway? Mostly, yes. Does the chronograph hinder shooting for groups? Not at all. Does the chrono help, in the long run, for me to shoot better groups? Yes. Yes it does.

When I was shooting retail ammo, I was amazed to notice how consistent 357 Magnum Sellier and Bellot ammunition is, shot to shot, with a tiny Standard Deviation and a tiny extreme spread, which is lowest to highest velocity, a delta of about 23 fps. How do thay do that on a Mass Produced product? The chronograph shows me how far I need to go, by comparison, to achieve round to round consistency

Richard P · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2013, 05:15:42 AM »

In my use of an Oehler 33 I find the tool useful. When beginning your load development it helps when you are looking for a particular bullet speed. If you want a 44m load to start subsonic you can learn that. If you want to know how much velocity change is gained or lost in changing bullets you can learn that. If you simply want to know the statistics of commercial ammo you can do that.
If you managed to find the best load without a chrono, you probably wont get much use from one, except to get a velocity check.
However if you shoot cast bullets a lot it is informative to know the velocity and extreme spread (high and low). I like the Oehler, although it is a bit awkward to tote and set up. I like the ability to print out the results. It's a worthwhile tool for me.
Earlier I neglected to mention the use of MV information gained from gauging ammo. If you use one of the programs such as www.jbmballistics.com you need to either have measured your velocity or be able to supply a close guess. That begins the trajectory computation. And, while you certainly shoud not neglect looking at the target results the chrono can help you feel the internal portion is operating correctly. rp

Hairy Chest · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2013, 07:20:18 AM »

There are other ways to see increase/decrease in velocity, such as looking at the target hole locations, then you can go up or back down as needed. Reaching the magic velocity number won't be necessary if the tighter groups happen at a higher or lower charge. You follow the accuracy, not the velocity. Even if they show ES "O" it doesn't mean accurate ammo.

pastorp · « **Reply #7 on:** April 07, 2013, 10:38:09 AM »

A chronograph serves as a poor mans pressure tester.

I'm sure you don't agree with that Harry Chest. But then I don't buy harbor freight cheep stuff.

so I don't agree with your line of thinking.

Regards.

mechanic · « **Reply #8 on:** April 07, 2013, 11:27:09 AM »

Anyone know of a bullet proof one....?

Hairy Chest · « **Reply #9 on:** April 09, 2013, 03:18:40 PM »

Quote from: mechanic on April 07, 2013, 11:27:09 AM

Anyone know of a bullet proof one....?

Today I had the pleasure of watching someone who even knew what they were doing fool with their chronograph. A wind gust blew it to the ground and destroyed it. I'll bet he paid a good $200 for that now pile of metal.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2013, 12:27:19 AM »

If that was the case, it would stand to reason then that he did not know what he was doing. Sand bags are always recommended to hold down/weigh down the wind "sail" area of light weight equipment .

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2013, 01:39:04 AM »

get an ohler! enought said. Sure wish i would have listened to my own advice!

Land_Owner · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2013, 01:42:17 PM »

Why Lloyd? They're expensive, cumbersome, time consuming to set up. Are they "all that" as the popular cliche' expresses and MORE? What makes an Ohler desirable?

Hairy Chest · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2013, 04:28:52 PM »

Quote from: Land_Owner on April 10, 2013, 01:42:17 PM

Why Lloyd? They're expensive, cumbersome, time consuming to set up. Are they "all that" as the popular cliche' expresses and MORE? What makes an Ohler desirable?

Lloyd always has to have a Mercedes. When the wind gusts blow I now say to myself, "There goes another Mercedes."

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2013, 01:24:00 AM »

because they work. Sure you can buy a 60 dollar chrony. Ive owned two of those and ill state for fact you cant trust there readings to be accurate. I own a pact now and its a ton better then the chronys but still is alot more suceptable to missed readings. If youve ever done any chrongraph work you know how frustrating that can be. As you can see I dont own one. Yes i went the cheaper route and yes i regret it. Yes for the most part i try to buy quality stuff. Ive been burned to many times not doing it. Things like my first attempt at going with progressive presses and saving lots of mone buying lees. I bought three. Ones at the bottom of my pond and two i sold for pennys on the dollar. This is my ONLY hobby anymore. I spend my money buyng soup up parts for dirt bikes and snowmobiles anymore or chrome for a harly. I shoot and reload and have found in reloading gear the old saying you get what you pay for is true more then about any other place. I do understand that people have differnt bugets then they think i do but I probably make less then most here. If i cant afford good stuff i dont by cheap. I just keep saving my pennys until i can afford to buy right the first time. I bought this pact because of recomendations i got from the internet. I should have know better as most on the internet do alot more typing then shooting. Truth be told my pact doesnt hold a candle to my buddys 20 year old ohler and i have serious doubts if my pact will even be around in 20 years and id bet maybe 5 percent of the chronys sold this year will still be in service 20 years from now.

Quote from: Land_Owner on April 10, 2013, 01:42:17 PM

Why Lloyd? They're expensive, cumbersome, time consuming to set up. Are they "all that" as the popular cliche' expresses and MORE? What makes an Ohler desirable?

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #15 on:** April 11, 2013, 01:34:46 AM »

yup your probably right if you never take your target out past 50 yards. Ive had loads with spreads near 200 fps that shot real well at 25 yards. Take two handgun loads that shoot one inch at 25 yards with one having an ES of 15fps and the other a 100fps and shoot those loads at a 100 yards and watch them open up and they go to 200 and your eyes will open up. Same goes for rifles take the same spreads and you might not see alot of differnce in group size at a 100yards and maybe even for some strange reason the 100fps group might even be better but take those same loads out to 3 and 400 yards and ill guarantee you the load with the smaller es will be the better shooting load. Is a chorno absolutely nessiary? Nope but its another tool to help a guy make the best ammo he can and to know what your load is REALLY doing instead of relying on a loading manual that speer or hodgdon uses not only to give you data but to sell there products. I wonder how many people go in the field with something like a 7mag thinking they really have something because there loading manual said so when in all reality there shooting a load that a good 270 would outpace.

Quote from: Hairy Chest on April 07, 2013, 07:20:18 AM

There are other ways to see increase/decrease in velocity, such as looking at the target hole locations, then you can go up or back down as needed. Reaching the magic velocity number won't be necessary if the tighter groups happen at a higher or lower charge. You follow the accuracy, not the velocity. Even if they show ES "O" it doesn't mean accurate ammo.

Rol Page · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2013, 04:58:50 AM »

Without the chronograph we are only guessing at what is a good load.. Think that a group hitting higher on a target @ 100yds is faster than another group hitting lower? Is it because of less bullet drop of a faster bullet? or is the faster bullet leaving the barrel quicker, therefore under less recoil influence and the faster bullet strikes lower on the target? I am only guessing until I pull out the chronograph.
24 hour Campfire.com and I believe Sinclair have some good reading on reloading and what a chronograph will tell you..
I only have one olde one, more than 20 yrs old and it is still ticking so I have no idea which is best...

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2013, 07:27:46 AM »

your right rol and ive even seen two bullets the exact same weight from differnt manufactures with the same powder charge print on target at a 100 yards 3 inches apart.

Quote from: Rol Page on April 11, 2013, 04:58:50 AM

Without the chronograph we are only guessing at what is a good load.. Think that a group hitting higher on a target @ 100yds is faster than another group hitting lower? Is it because of less bullet drop of a faster bullet? or is the faster bullet leaving the barrel quicker, therefore under less recoil influence and the faster bullet strikes lower on the target? I am only guessing until I pull out the chronograph.
24 hour Campfire.com and I believe Sinclair have some good reading on reloading and what a chronograph will tell you..
I only have one olde one, more than 20 yrs old and it is still ticking so I have no idea which is best...

Hairy Chest · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2013, 06:11:31 PM »

I did like how the chronograph told me how the velocity stopped increasing as powder was added in .45 Colt. But what about a 7.5" 500 JRH? Will velocity go up from 29.5 grains to 30.5? The POI did drop 1", so it must be so. I can confirm that with the chronograph. So that is a purpose for the chronograph. It can confirm for us when adding powder is or isn't doing anything.

cjensen · « **Reply #19 on:** April 29, 2013, 05:26:30 AM »

I have an older Oehler 35. It's a pain to set up, but I like the fact that if I need a load with a higher velocity I can just move the screens a little closer.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #20 on:** April 30, 2013, 12:15:06 AM »

Quote from: cjensen on April 29, 2013, 05:26:30 AM

if I need a load with a higher velocity I can just move the screens a little closer.

No fair.

That's cheating.

Too close and the muzzle blast sets off the first timer before the bullet ever gets there and the velocity result will be WELL BELOW the expected. It is a real EYE OPENER when that happens. My PACT is real sensitive to my 270 if it is closer than about 13-feet from the muzzle. That was an interesting day and a waste of a few pieces of ammunition to learn that.