new member and latch-spring questions

[rawdog]

I am a new member in this forum. I am very impressed by the accumulated wealth of knowlege on Handi Rifles and i appreciate y'all for being here.
I am also a new Handi Rifle owner....I am considering options on a stiffer latch engagement spring in an H&R .30-30 I purchased about 4 months ago.
I am reloading for it, and had decided at the outset to "neck-size" instead of full length resizing. Long story short, the case shoulder blows out with each firing and creates a headspacing problem preventing full closure of the action by a few thousandths. This caused vertical stringing as much as 6" and some lateral dispersion as well on target. Went thru three scopes and many reload variations, it took me over 200rounds at the range to finally realize it was not a scope problem! At any rate, I full length resized the most recent 40rds fired and the groups have settled down, though still not "great." I am thinking a stiffer latch engagement spring will help the latch to better "reseat" after 200rds of slightly-unclosed seating.  When I close it hard, twice on each round, and eyeball the barrel-breech to standing-breech clearance it appears no more than about .0005" (half a thousandth) and only along the very top 20% or so of the breech-mating surface. With one single closure right now with FL sized brass I often see about .001" (used a feeler gauge to determine this at first).  When I had brass-headspacing problems, due to neck-sizing only, I would see at least .002" if not a little more.
Comments anyone?
 
Here is a question for quickdtoo:
In a 2006 thread on "latch engagement" (http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,102204.msg1098276667.html#msg1098276667) you had received 6 McMaster springs # 9657K231 and made the statement "... I think 3 springs ~.600"-.575" long out of each piece will do the trick..."
This confused me, did you intend this to mean 3 of these springs in one gun? wouldn't only one fit? (I have not yet dis-assembled an action so am not yet intimate with the innards.)
Has that spring worked well since then? Is this McMaster-Carr spring the current recommendation here?
rawdog

[quickdtoo]

Welcome! Those springs work fine, each is custom fitted,  I cut it slightly long and then trim a little at a time and test install until the action can be opened, then the spring has optimum length. You have to remove the trigger guard pins to open the action if the spring is too long. You can get three usable latch springs out of each 2" spring.

On the 30-30, if you full length resize to headspace on the shoulder(instead of relying on the rim) so the chambered brass is flush with the barrel face, you'll be well ahead, this eliminates any issues with a generously deep rim cut. 

Tim

[rawdog]

Tim, thanks for the quick reply. I understand your "three-fer" comment now, I think I will order those springs.
 
No, I was not using the shoulder for headspacing, but it became the dominant headspacing issue with my reload brass since I was not full-length resizing. I am now of the observation, if not firm opinion, that in a break-action the reloads MUST be FL resized to avoid the problem. I have not reloaded for over 25yrs until recently and was trying to get by with only a Lee handheld press, which necksizes just fine but requires too much force, IMHO, for FL resizing. So, I finally got off my lazy duff 3 days ago (first warm weather in central Texas in quite a while!) and mounted my old RCBS benchpress that I have not used since forever, and FL resized that brass and seem to have solved the problem.
 
I can see your point about not working the brass shoulder any more than required, and even using the shoulder for headspacing if the rimcut is too deep in the breech, but I don't think I have that problem. Is there any other advantage to not fully resizing the case?
 
It seems to me that the ideal case for this action is a straight-walled rimmed case.... 38-55 and 45-70 come to mind, and this problem would not occur.
 
thanks again.
 
rogerw
 

[wtroger]

Check this device out. I bought one a while back and it is an eye opener as to how much variance there is in brass. It also lets me set my dies to just kiss back the brass a tiny amount .001-.0015 it really helps with chambering issues.

http://larrywillis.com/

[gcrank1]

Loads a bit 'hot' for the action will do what you have experienced, or at least contribute to it. I typically reduce my loads to a point where that is minimized and forget about squeezing the last few FPS out of a cartridge. IIRC the 30-30 is one of those pesky cartridges that can do this to a guy and the AI version really helps? Hopefully some of the AI guys will comment here regarding that and straighten me out.
I like to use the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die set up for my cast bullet loads, but they are all reduced loads just by virtue of being lead, so I dont have to deal with stretching case and FLSing (and my brass lasts about forever). When I did, or occasionally now do, shoot hotter jacketed loads, if I experience something like you have when neck sizing with a backed off FL die, I will slowly start turning it down in the press until I find that sweet spot for chambering that is still somewhat short of FL sizing.