Author Topic: Touch hole liner with lock questions (Read 1592 times)

stoveupdallas · « **on:** February 19, 2013, 06:08:13 AM »

Your site is great, I'm just getting my first hern 1/2 napoleon in a few weeks.I want to make sure I do every thing the correct way. Reading here you must line the touch hole so my question is can I do this safely I will post a pic of my idea. This is not the bolt I would use just for the idea.

I want to fire using 209 primers. Thanks Dallas this newbie can use lots of help.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2013, 07:25:32 AM »

Welcome aboard, stoveupdallas!

I can see the drawing with the lanyard to pull; so in the photo, is that the spring activated firing mechanism that will pop the shotgun primer (set on top of the bolt)?

stoveupdallas · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2013, 07:40:57 AM »

Here is my ideas.

Thanks

stoveupdallas · « **Reply #3 on:** February 19, 2013, 07:43:28 AM »

Read your post wrong sorry. Yes it will be on ss bolt, with 209 primmer as charge down through 1/8 or 3/16 hole in bolt to fire charge?

Cannoneer · « **Reply #4 on:** February 19, 2013, 07:56:15 AM »

Okay, thanks, now I got it. You're going to have a slap hammer that will strike the cap.

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** February 19, 2013, 08:13:33 AM »

Are you going to charge your vent? How? Will a 209 primer throw enough fire to reach the charge down the vent without being primed.

Your whole system seems excessively complicated and overly complex for firing a 1/2 scale Napoleon. In fact firing a gun that large there is a very good chance you will just blow the whole mechanism right out of the gun in a few shots if not sooner. I Base this opinion on what appears to be some sort of closed spring loaded device. Slap hammer should be okay. You are just asking for an accident if you have screw that spring loaded device into the vent of a loaded and primed gun. I value my fingers.

You best way to fire the gun is with a quill or friction primer-that's how the originals were fired. Friction primers are easy to get and much cooler and more authentic than mechanical devices.

If you must have a mechanical device, then look at a slap hammer firing a musket cap down a primed vent or firing a power stud blank.

stoveupdallas · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2013, 08:22:08 AM »

Double d question so if I line touch hole and use quills is the ss bolt drilled a good liner for the vent hole or is it goind to blow out. Thanks

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2013, 08:38:10 AM »

Quote from: stoveupdallas on February 19, 2013, 08:22:08 AM

Double d question so if I line touch hole and use quills is the ss bolt drilled a good liner for the vent hole or is it goind to blow out. Thanks

No as long as the vent is lined and has an open hole, the gas can vent. The vent will not blow out. If you cap that vent with a device the divice will get blown out.

Why are you going to use stainless steel? Not needed, Stainless steel vent is is a solution to an imaginary problem.

stoveupdallas · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2013, 11:15:26 AM »

So what is the best liner to use I have read with the liner and corrosion problems you need to line touch hole and vent hole should be 1 1/2 cal larger so should I use regular 1/2 bolt n.c. threads with say .200 hole center drilled for quills or fuse ?
Thanks Dallas

Double D · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2013, 12:02:43 PM »

The real deal was made from copper.

I'm just saying there is no need to use stainless steel. I make mine from bolts. Stainless steel will corrode.

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2013, 12:14:31 PM »

Quote from: Double D on February 19, 2013, 12:02:43 PM

The real deal was made from copper.

I'm just saying there is no need to use stainless steel. I make mine from bolts. Stainless steel will corrode.

I agree that a simple slap hammer to hit a primer that can just be set in the vent hole on top of the gun is way easier and more authentic looking. I don't think it needs to be primed though, just foil charge pricked. I know guys popping primers (not friction primers) through 5" axial vents into shells with a .050 hole in the back of them with no misfires.

Are you suggesting he use a copper or brass bolt instead of a stainless allthread? how will it corrode any more than the rest of his barrel if he doesn't keep it oiled and clean.

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2013, 12:21:34 PM »

Quote from: stoveupdallas on February 19, 2013, 11:15:26 AM

So what is the best liner to use I have read with the liner and corrosion problems you need to line touch hole and vent hole should be 1 1/2 cal larger so should I use regular 1/2 bolt n.c. threads with say .200 hole center drilled for quills or fuse ?
Thanks Dallas

Half inch would be good, and 200 thou. is the right size not only for a quill and fuze, but for a friction primer if you choose to use it too. Not sure what a 209 primer is, but it's probably close to that also.

Double D · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2013, 12:51:21 PM »

Quote from: Cannon Cocker on February 21, 2013, 12:14:31 PM

Are you suggesting he use a copper or brass bolt instead of a stainless allthread? how will it corrode any more than the rest of his barrel if he doesn't keep it oiled and clean.

No I'm not saying any such thing.

I'm saying that stainless steel is not needed. Thats all nothing more nothing less.

And I am not saying that stainless will corrode more or less than anything else...I am saying stainless steel corrodes. Again nothing more, nothing less.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2013, 01:17:58 PM »

Cannon Cocker,

209's are shotshell primers. I would think think that installing a nipple for musket caps would be more practical (if he wants to use a slap hammer).

GGaskill · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2013, 03:28:57 PM »

The problem with a nipple is it is difficult to prick the cahrge and difficult to clean the vent unless you remove the nipple.

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2013, 06:26:19 PM »

Quote from: Cannoneer on February 21, 2013, 01:17:58 PM

Cannon Cocker,

209's are shotshell primers. I would think think that installing a nipple for musket caps would be more practical (if he wants to use a slap hammer).

If I were doing it, I would use a primer with a flange like a .22 blank or 209 that can be put straight into the vent in the gun. The hammer probably wouldn't need to be modified to pop the .22 as it would probably crush the rim enough to fire it. If it didn't you could make a little bit of blade on the face of it. With the 209 (second choice because of the smaller more fragile flange) you would modify the hammer to have a pin on the face. I don't like the idea of drilling and tapping threads for a nipple that has to be taken out and cleaned after every day of shooting. Also with an open vent, (about .225" hole for a .22 blank) you can use fuse, quills, and friction primers (which are about .200") all in the same hole when you run out one or the other.

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2013, 06:36:01 PM »

Quote from: Double D on February 21, 2013, 12:51:21 PM

Quote from: Cannon Cocker on February 21, 2013, 12:14:31 PM

Are you suggesting he use a copper or brass bolt instead of a stainless allthread? how will it corrode any more than the rest of his barrel if he doesn't keep it oiled and clean.

No I'm not saying any such thing.

I'm saying that stainless steel is not needed. Thats all nothing more nothing less.

And I am not saying that stainless will corrode more or less than anything else...I am saying stainless steel corrodes. Again nothing more, nothing less.

Got it. I'm still curious what material the bolts that you mentioned you use for vents are made of though.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2013, 07:15:08 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on February 21, 2013, 03:28:57 PM

The problem with a nipple is it is difficult to prick the cahrge and difficult to clean the vent unless you remove the nipple.

George,
I didn't go looking for past threads, but I do know that there have been more than a few builds here where members have opted for musket cap ignition. I've been told that drilling a nipple to open it up would lessen efficiency, but if memory serves, some guys did drill nipples, so that pricks could be used without removing them.

Cannon Cocker,
The 209 primers certainly burn hotter than musket caps, and nipples are made for them.

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2013, 02:38:31 AM »

Quote from: Cannoneer on February 21, 2013, 07:15:08 PM

Quote from: GGaskill on February 21, 2013, 03:28:57 PM
The problem with a nipple is it is difficult to prick the cahrge and difficult to clean the vent unless you remove the nipple.

George,
I didn't go looking for past threads, but I do know that there have been more than a few builds here where members have opted for musket cap ignition. I've been told that drilling a nipple to open it up would lessen efficiency, but if memory serves, some guys did drill nipples, so that pricks could be used without removing them.

Cannon Cocker,
The 209 primers certainly burn hotter than musket caps, and nipples are made for them.

I would think the 209s are hotter than musket caps, and the .22 blanks (power tool loads) gotta be even more than those. Yea, you would have to drill out the nipple unless you want to take it off every shot to prick the bag like Gaskill said. Shouldn't be a problem with it drilled, but it would still be a pretty thin vent pick. You saying a 209 will fit on a musket nipple? Never though of that.

de_lok · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2013, 03:36:30 AM »

Quote from: Cannoneer on February 21, 2013, 07:15:08 PM

Quote from: GGaskill on February 21, 2013, 03:28:57 PM
The problem with a nipple is it is difficult to prick the cahrge and difficult to clean the vent unless you remove the nipple.

George,
I didn't go looking for past threads, but I do know that there have been more than a few builds here where members have opted for musket cap ignition. I've been told that drilling a nipple to open it up would lessen efficiency, but if memory serves, some guys did drill nipples, so that pricks could be used without removing them.

Cannon Cocker,
The 209 primers certainly burn hotter than musket caps, and nipples are made for them.

I have been drilling musket nipples for years without a single FTF. I have always used CCI musket caps (I recently purchased a pack of RWS caps and will try them). The only FTF issues I've had in the past was with smaller #10 caps and the vent wasn't drilled out. These same caps also failed to fire consistently in my Ruger Old Army cap & ball revolver. Here is a link to the post I made on drilling a musket nipple so a vent pick could be used without removing the nipple...............................

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=269414.0

Dewayne

Cannoneer · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2013, 06:15:03 AM »

Dewayne,

The advice that I was referring to, about not opening up nipples to a larger diam., was all centered around muzzleloading firearms (not artillery). In that regard, I couldn't tell you if it's good advice or not, but as you've already stated (concerning cannon), it has never caused you any problems with ignition; and there are others here whose past posts back up your experience. Check out this thread.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=245083.0

Cannon Cocker,
See reply #4 on thread above.

stoveupdallas · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2013, 06:18:39 AM »

Thanks for the help I think I am going to go with a touch hole That can go with 209 at a latter date so I can start with fuse and quill [have pic of 209 nipple].I'll try to post pics later myhostedpics off line. Getting my antique steel wheels for carriage sat. ? New house monday so I'll try to post the pics soon.

Double D · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2013, 07:54:07 AM »

Quote from: Cannon Cocker on February 21, 2013, 06:36:01 PM

Got it. I'm still curious what material the bolts that you mentioned you use for vents are made of though.

What ever socket head cap screws are made of.

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2013, 10:22:29 AM »

These guys might really be able to help us then! Check it out.

http://accuglassproducts.com/home.php?cat=425

GGaskill · « **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2013, 11:35:45 AM »

Pretty expensive and likely too short.

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2013, 12:30:13 PM »

Yea, it looked ideal when I first found it, but then I researched and couldn't find any long ones. Thought it might be a great pilot hole for guys without access to machining.