Author Topic: .35 Whelen RL-15/ powder choices (Read 4904 times)

Not the 10th Man · « **on:** November 25, 2012, 10:26:39 PM »

Hey y'all,

Got a quick powder question for you. I just recently purchased a Remington 7600 in .35 Whelen. Since it was a good quality, stout modern gun, I ventured straight over to the Hodgdon website, and loaded it up with max loads. I have been trying very hard to shoot the 250 grain Hornady Interlock SP's, and figured I'd better give 'em a fast spin, cause of the theoretical rifling twist issues when shooting heavy bullets

Good news was that both loads I made using H-4895 and H-322 shot honest to God 1" groups at 100 yards. Bad news was that I blew one primer out of the case, flattened the heck out of the rest, mushed the headstamps, etc. Seems that when Hodgdon publishes a max load, they really mean it. So...I pulled the remaining bullets and I'm starting over again.

It seems H-4895 is the all around standby rifle powder. Maybe just a couple grains less this time?

Having said that, everybody is bragging up the RL-15 powder. It sounds great and all, but one curiosity I have is that the Alliant site is showing a max load of 54 grains. It seems everywhere else on the inter-webs, people are loading them up to around 57-60 grains...a full 3-5 grains above their published max load.

Right now, I'm reluctant to exceed mid range loads, let pushing well over a published max load.

As much as the RL-15 is getting bragged up, I'm leaning towards the 4895, just cause it's more of a....known entity to me. I still find myself quite enticed by the RL-15.

So, what are y'alls experiences with RL-15, 250 grain bullets, the .35 Whelen and the 7600?

Thanks!

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2012, 07:04:26 AM »

The maximum loads are potentially different for every rifle. Anytime you see maximum load, back off at least 10% and work up. You are lucky the pressure signs you had were limited to warnings.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2012, 07:29:03 AM »

OUCH! Any time your pressures alter the case. Your most certinly above safe working pressure!

I have had excellent luck with 4320 and AA2520 with light weight bullets. RL 15 is a excellent choice for med to heavyweights. I prefer the Speer 250 RN myself as I'll never shoot that bullet anywhere near 300 yards anyhow. If long rang is needed either the 225g Accu Bond or Sierra will be used.
For deer sized game I love the Hornady 200 Spitzer. I have read much good about the newer 200 FTX too! Apparently its not fragile like other in its line.

Every gun is different, as suggested do t start at max. You may well find you surpass it, but label clearly and know if that bullet finds its way into another rifle not able to handle that loading bad things can happen.

Glad to hear all went well with your last loading. That one was HOT!!!

CW

Not the 10th Man · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2012, 08:22:28 AM »

Yeah...pretty much learned my lesson on the max loadings. That's the reason I'm remaining a bit shy of the RL-15. The maximum load on the Alliant site is showing a MAXIMUM charge of 54 grains yielding just shy of 2,300 FPS. I guess the older manuals go all the way up to 59 grains for a maximum load, and scuttle butt here on the internet is showing nobody staying at that max load. Hell, most people are trying to get 2,600-2,700 FPS...if I can between 2,400 and 2,500 I'll be dancing a jig.

Since everyone seems to be going off the table with RL-15, I'm kinda leaning more towards the Hodgdon powders. I like the smaller loads, max loads, and the approximate pressures being listed.

I appreciate your input!

ronben · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2012, 05:27:55 PM »

Ive been pretty happy with IMR 8208. Shoots better than R15 in my 16" twist whelens. Use hodgdons data.

dabersold · « **Reply #5 on:** November 27, 2012, 03:02:20 AM »

My 35 Whelen load is 58gr. of RL-15 with the 225gr. Sierra boat tail. It too is a bit over the listed max load in the Nosler book but, cycles well in my Rem. 750 Woodsmaster and shows no signs of pressure issues. Like you said in your first post, there are some loading hotter than that but you will find that anywhere you find posts on reloading. I'm certainly not recommending loading over posted max loads but because of different chambers being slightly different in different guns, max isn't always max. Your gun may show pressure problems below max loads, others may be ok SLIGHTLY above max. Just keep an eye on your brass and primers and load up to max slowly. RL-15 is all I have ever loaded in my Whelen.

RevJim · « **Reply #6 on:** November 27, 2012, 04:56:09 AM »

I've never loaded for a 7600 or any pump. However, I have used R15 in my 35 Whelen Ackley Improved, a 9.3x62 and in a .308 with excellent results. I think it is a Jim- dandy powder, very temp stable and easy to work with. I certainly would not worry about it being a problem. In your pump, your biggest issue will be extraction, and you didn't say anything in your post how those hot loads shucked.
I also think H4895 is a great powder for the velocities you are trying to get ( which work swell btw) and I would not worry about the twist. If you do get keyholes with your 250gr spire points (which is doubtful) just use the Hornady ( or Woodleighs) round nose. Round nose bullets hit "hard" too! I likewise think H322 is great for the lighter bullets, I started using it in '95 in my Whelen Imp for the Barnes 200 X and now the newer TTSX. I won't give my load as the Improved case holds more, my barrels throat is super long so I also gain powder capacity from the bullets being seated out farther, and the Improved cases burn powder slightly different. In a standard Whelen, book data is fine anyhow. I admit, I like speed and I like the Ackley Improved design, so that's the route I went. I certainly think no animal could tell the difference between your 200s at 2600/2700 or mine at 2950! Likewise, between a 250 round or spire going 2400/2600 and 2750! "Maybe" a brown bear could, but I have never seen one, ha. If you want speed with a Whelen "safely", get a new 700 CDL in 35 Whelen, and have its 24" bbls chamber reamed to the Ackley or Brown Whelen Improved and get after it, ha. As far as your pump, those who have them tend to keep them forever! The Whelen in the 7600 must be a great combo, no need to push the envelope, just have a ball! Good luck to you.

JesterGrin · « **Reply #7 on:** November 27, 2012, 12:14:12 PM »

I am sure this has been said but I will say it again for good measure.

No matter what Powder you choose ALLWAYS WORK UP FROM STARTING LOADS.

Or as said if only a Max load is shown start 10% Down from that and work up.

RL-15 is a good powder in the .35 Whelen.

In my Custom 35 Whelen I can go no higher than 52.0Gr of RL-15 behind a Speer 250Gr Hot Core. If I go to 53.O Gr Primers will be flat as a pan cake. And at 53.5 I blew a primer right out of the brass. So I am using 51.OGr of RL-15.

Also I found that they say that RL-15 is not temp sensitive. Well I think it is to a point. You see at 53.0 Gr it was ok when I worked up the load in the winter of about 40F or a little less. But in the summer when it was 105F it was too HOT.

RevJim · « **Reply #8 on:** November 27, 2012, 12:38:49 PM »

I worked up my 310gr load in the AI with R15, around 50 deg and I later tried them at 33 deg, and "in that direction" It was the same, no loss of velocity. Now, I imagine that if any powder is going to show a rise in pressure, it would surely do it at 105 deg, ha. I should have said from Fall to spring, I had no temperature problems.
My SILs custom Mauser in 35 Whelen AI has a short throat, his rifle can't use as much powder as mine, but he gets fast speeds w/o having to. My first Mod 700 Classic in 35 Whelen ( the one back in '95) had a longer throat than the Mod 700 Classic I use now. In the first one, I could load out to 3.43 and stay off the lands a good .40 thou, this one touches the lands at 3.44. I would imagine that 7600 has to use magazine length as a overall length gauge. If not, then maybe the 250s are jamming into the lands or too close. Anyhow, H4895 would be hard to improve on in a standard whelen for the speeds he wants.

Not the 10th Man · « **Reply #9 on:** November 27, 2012, 03:25:07 PM »

I just yesterday resized all my brass to reload. They must not have been as bad as I had thought, since the hot loaded ones accidentally got mixed into my standard brass. I was very critical in looking around the necks and headstamps and couldn't tell one from the other. I only found one that was truly bad, I think that was the one that ejected the primer. I couldn't fit it into my shellholder to resize. I guess I did neglect to mention the ejection- It was very smooth and flawless, didn't even kick the action back any. I do have other mistakes to consider in that- I have since realized my powder measure gets pretty general with rifle powders, so..I'll be weighing each and every one from now on. I also considered the fact that I was running Federal Brass, which I seem to recall is a bit thicker and heavier than most.

When I bought the powder, indecision carried the day. I got one canister of RL-15 and one canister of 4895. I also have some H-322 and some IMR 4320. It should be enough, though I hate to admit, I'm already a bit curious about TAC.

I'm thinking the 2,400-2,500 should keep me covered for anything from the caribou and black bear to moose.

The temp can be tricky. Right now temps are around zero most of the time in my neck of the woods. I reckon the best I can do it just find the load I like, and then take it down a grain to be on the safe side when the weather warms up again.

I have noticed the guys running 700's are mostly running much hotter loads than I would dare to. If I get this .35 Whelen project off the ground I may have to buy a spare .35 Whelen.....it's only sensible, right? a 700 would be preferrable, but I could also be happy with one of the CVA single shots. a .35 Whelen AI does sound like alot of fun. Some day...

Thanks for your thoughts thus far. I hope to start loading a few soon and make it to the range some time this week. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

RevJim · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2012, 03:32:43 AM »

I had a major temp problem with R19 once in a 338 wm. I had settled on a good load witht he Barnes 185 XLC bullet, around 50 deg. I tried it 10 days before my cow elk hunt, at 10 deg, and my accuracy was shot and I had lost around 200fps! I pulled the bullets and the R19 had made a solid block, had to scrape it out with a screw driver. I went H4350, made another good load, ended up shooting my elk around 250yds. I went to the Hogdon Extreme Powders almost exclusively after that. H322 is one of course, and I was semi-reluctant to try R15 until I did some extensive reading on it. For cold weather, as my test with the 310 proved, it was super. I don't worry about my 200gr loads as the H322 has shot well for me, even around 100 deg. That is the bullet I would use in warmer climates anyhow (like Texas for exotics,etc)
I think you are on the right track to get a relatively inexpensive single shot rifle in 35 Whelen ( go ahead...ream it out to the Ackley! ha) From what I have read (no experience at all) the Encore would be the one for hot loads/speed. I don't know as I am a die hard Mod 700 fan. I mentioned the 700 CDL in the 35 Whelen cause it has a 24" bbl. and I really like them. I "almost" bought one at Cabela's once, but I knew what would happen...I would work up a load for it and trade it off as I am just too attached to my 700 Classic for hunting, ha. I have had several Mod 336 in 35 Remington, a Remington Mod 141 pump in 35 Rem, a 358 Win BLR, a spotless Mod 700 classic in 350 Rem mag and all went down the road. I enjoyed them all, but I am OCD on this particular rifle, having used it in South Africa, and in Utah, Michigan, it has been an old friend. I am "pretty sure" I will have it buried with me ( dang kids can't appreciate it anyhow! ha) Good luck to you, and sure enough, shoot some hogs with a round nose 250 out of that pump and just see what I'm raving about!

supertodd · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2012, 11:25:35 AM »

I have an old rem 760 that was previously rechambered from 35 rem to whelen. I use to shoot BLC2 with 250 grn bullets until I tried RL15 because everyone was talking it up, and with good reason it shoots great. I have taken 2 bull Roosvelt elk, 2 black bears, put another bear down that was hit with an 06. All with nosler 250's. Using rem 200 rn cl bulk bullet I have killed about 12 Blacktail bucks, a mule deer and a coyote. That pump 35 whelen is my favorite hunting rifle I have killed more big game with it than all my other rifles put together.

supertodd · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2012, 11:29:43 AM »

Here is a link to noslers data

http://www.nosler.com/Reloading-Data/35-Whelen-250-Grains.aspx

Dresden · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2013, 04:11:12 AM »

I was shooting the 250 Hornady RN in my Mauser in 35 Whelen using the 59 gn load of Reloader 15, I also shot that load in my H&R Handi Rifle, I went down to the recommended 54 grains of RL 15 with no problems.

Dresden

drdougrx · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2013, 03:34:58 AM »

I'm also using RL-15 in my Rem CDL in 35w. I generally only shoot 225gr bullets (TSX and Accubonds and a few Sierras) and use 60gr with no probs and 2700fps. Took the Nilgai in my avatar with this load using TSX bullets.

Correction!! Went to the range yesterday with my Chronograph. Rem 700CDL 35whelen, 24" barrel, 225gr TSX and 61gr RL-15 gave me an averrage velocity of 2580FPS...still plenty!

abolt-fan · « **Reply #15 on:** April 12, 2013, 07:38:48 PM »

First let me say you should always start low and work up to max charges. With that out of the way I can tell you a friend and I load for his 7600 and 700. His 250gr. load uses original Barnes X bullets. We use Remington brass, CCI primers and RL 15 powder. 57.0 gr. of RL 15 gives him tight groups with an average velocity of 2558 fps. He has no problems with that load.

I also use RL 15 but I use 200 gr. Hornadys, 225 gr. Noslers and 225 gr. Barnes TSXs. If you want to stick with Hodgdon powder I would take a look at Varget. Usually Varget or RL 15 are considered top choices in the Whelen.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #16 on:** April 12, 2013, 09:07:49 PM »

Not much to add to the above info, other then to say the 35's have been my favorite big game calibers for years. The rifle shown is a 1909 Argentine Mauser, built by DWM. I purchased it in full military trim about 1972 for $55.00. Had it re chambered / re bored to 35 Whelen, barrel cut to 22 inches, bolt handle lowered, drilled for a scope, peep sights attached, and reshaped / refinished the stock. That rifle, along with a early Browning BLR in 358 Winchester accounted for a lot of game before I became more of a handgun hunter.

Larry

cwlongshot · « **Reply #17 on:** April 13, 2013, 12:57:15 AM »

Quote from: Bigeasy on April 12, 2013, 09:07:49 PM

Not much to add to the above info, other then to say the 35's have been my favorite big game calibers for years. The rifle shown is a 1909 Argentine Mauser, built by DWM. I purchased it in full military trim about 1972 for $55.00. Had it re chambered / re bored to 35 Whelen, barrel cut to 22 inches, bolt handle lowered, drilled for a scope, peep sights attached, and reshaped / refinished the stock. That rifle, along with a early Browning BLR in 358 Winchester accounted for a lot of game before I became more of a handgun hunter.

Larry

Larry,
My first 35Whelen is also a 1909 Argentine DWN Mauser. I bought mine about 1985 and while deciding on a caliber, killed a couple deer with the 7.65x53 chambering and 174g bullets. I knew it would be a 35 cal, but I first looked to my favorite 358W that I had for about 5 years in a BLR Browning. The 350 mag proved too much bolt work and unreliable feeding... I was then set on the Brown Whelen. This time die and reamer costs moved me to the 35Whelen. I decided to leave the barrel long at 27'' to gain some velocity and it worked!

I have been shooting 200g Hornadys at 2900fps with 2520 powder and 250's at 2600+fps with RL15. Both with sub MOA accuracy from the Shillen barrel.

I like the 200's on Whitetails and the 250's for anything bigger.

But just 250 RN will do just about anything one would need with this caliber.

CW

Your looks great, I also origionaly wanted to go walnut origionaly but decided on a ''pounder'' kevlar syn stock.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #18 on:** April 13, 2013, 10:17:25 AM »

CW
Thanks. I was 12 years old when I bought that rifle, my first that was actually mine. Had just started trapping, fur market was good, and cash was flowing.. Read a lot of Elmer Keith stuff, and knew I wanted a .35. Figured a Whelen would be the best choice for that action, and it was. A local smith rebored the original barrel (probably cheaper to buy a new one these days). That gun will still group into 1 1/2 inches with 200 grain Hornadys and 4895 powder. Used it quite a bit on "problem" deer on a couple CT farms, and up in Maine every year. As I got older, I acquired a lot of different guns, but that rifle / cartridge combo would be at the top of my short list if I ever had to choose just one. People underestimate the versatility of the 35 Whelen - From cast pistol bullets for plinking and small game, to 250 grain Noslers for about anything that walks, the 35 Whelen can do it.

Larry

RevJim · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2013, 05:48:24 AM »

When my Marine SIL was on his first deployment to Iraq, (2003) I wanted to give him a nice rifle upon his return. ( I'm a great FIL! ha) I found a real nice Mod 98, classic walnut stocked, Timney trigger, with a 24" Douglas Barrel at a fine gun store. I put a Leupold VIII 1.5x5 on it ( he later put a Redfield 4x12 on it...those Marines!) It was chambered in .358 Win, and since, it was a long action, I had my Smith ream it out, rechambered to 35 Whelen AI, just like mine. The reamer did not cut the throat as deep as my Remington 35 Whelan's, but it came out so sweet! He forms his brass with Hornady 200 Spires, the shorter throat enables him to seat them into the lands, and uses the load for practice, etc. He then went straight to the 225 Accubond and it shoots clover leafs. He has shot two bull elk with it, and he loves it.
For his second deployment, upon his return (2004), I had a standard Model 700 .270 restocked in cheesecake Marbled English Walnut, metal all tricked out, and his name/rank/tour date engraved on it. I worked him up a load using the 140 Accubond. I've given him a bunch more since, many I intended for heirlooms to my daughter anyway, I just figured I'd do it before I died and get to see them enjoy them. PLUS...I can borrow any of them anytime I want, but I don't have to "feed" them, ha.

Barstooler · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2013, 02:26:40 PM »

I tried 4064, 4320, and 4895 in my Whelen back in the 60s and settled on 4895. I used that powder in the Whelen for 50 years until I finally tried RL15. It is now the go-to powder I shoot in that rifle. BTW I only shoot 250gr Speers.
Barstooler

Dresden · « **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2013, 06:38:28 AM »

I would suggest that you get a copy of the article "Reloading the Mysterious 9.3x57" in "Handloader Magazine" April 2013.

I realize it is not a 35 Whelen, but the author covers several good points about reloading especially the cartridge neck as loaded and the chambers neck size. Rifle chambers vary because as the reamers dull they can cut differently than spec.

Some problems with reloading is making cases from a 30-06 cases, a 35 Whelen was designed to do this but other calibers might not have been, the author of the article covers this problem.

When reloading a cartridge always start ten percent lower

I fire one cartridge, after extracting I inspect for any signs of pressure, set back primer, then I check if the case neck has expanded enough by sliding a unloaded bullet in the neck, it should easily slip in, if not you may have issues that could lead
to pressure problems.

Back to the issue, I use Reloader 15, 54 grains, 250 gn Hornady round nose

nomosendero · « **Reply #22 on:** May 25, 2013, 06:43:41 AM »

The main problem these days for most people is finding RL15, Varget and many others.

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #23 on:** May 25, 2013, 11:37:02 AM »

I have settled upon H-4895 for my Whelen. I have tried a number of powders and a number of loads from low to high velocity. I am shooting 200 grain Hornady SP for whitetail. H-4895 seems to give me the most consistance performance with no flyers.

rickt300 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 11, 2013, 06:43:00 AM »

I am getting good results with H380, using 61 grains of it under the 250 gr. Speer spitzer. For my hog hunting load I use the same powder but only 59.0 grains under 220-225 grain bullets. My second favorite powder is IMR 3031 which worked wonderfully for all bullet weights.

crash87 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 28, 2014, 05:29:50 AM »

My 35 Whelen, a Winchester 1895, w/24" barrel, I also utilize Reloader 15. In fact when I worked up my loads, 1998, Reloader 15 was so good I have used it for standard loads in a good number of cartridges. I have been looking for some more RL-15, the past year and a half to 2 years, but to no avail, until last week when I found 2# at my local, 2 hour drive 1 way, reloading store. I am good to go, now again, for a while.
Anyway I have settled on 53gr.@2399fps, 54 gave me 2437fps. 52 clocked in at 2365fps. This with the Speer 250SP. since 2009 I have used it exclusively with cast bullets, LBT 250LCFN, with my alloy goes 260gr.
I have tried numerous other powders with the cast, Varget, TAC, Accurate 3100, and RL-19. RL-19 with a granulated shot buffer gave fantastic results, until, of course, I went back to RL-15. Without shot buffer it blew RL-19 out of the water. With my previous inability to find RL-15 I was going to try some BLC-2 with cast as I heard good things about that also. I'm still going to, but now for fun, instead of necessity.
Crash87

Singlebarrel · « **Reply #26 on:** March 01, 2014, 01:03:01 AM »

My Whelen is a TC Prohunter with the 28 inch stainless barrel. I have been through 3 or 4 of the Weather Shield barrels trying to get one that would shoot decently. Originally thought that, since factory loads would not shoot in them, that I could work up a hand load that would. Eventually, they all went back to TC. According to TC the chambers were not cut to spec and they sent me the stainless barrel. It works fine.

In trying a number of different load and powders, the load I had remaining when the stainless barrel came in was Varget with the 200 grain Hornady with an OAL of 3.2 inches. This load shoots well, nice clover leafs at 50 yards at 2,750 fps. After reading the above post, I am going to run it out a little longer, another tenth or so and see if it will tighten up even more. Good info in this thread.

I had run some H-4895 loads through the other barrels I had tried, along with Varget and several other different powders. Nothing worked, but now I know it was not the loads. Since Varget works with what I have I see no reason to try to re-invent the wheel. Will just stay with it for now.

All we have around here is deer and hogs so the Hornady bullet will do anything I need to do. My son has been killing hogs with that bullet and it does a nice job. If I ever get to my dream hunts for Elk and Caribou, will be open to trying something else.