Author Topic: Anyone ever cut the barrel and stock down on a full stocked gun. (Read 1153 times)

lakota · « **on:** November 03, 2012, 01:09:53 PM »

I have a Tennessee rifle with a 42" barrel.The stock doesnt have a nose cap. While I like the way it looks I find its just too long to hold steady off hand. I have been thinking of cutting it down to around 36"-38". I think it would be a bit handier if it were a tad shorter. Anyone ever undertake such a project?

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #1 on:** November 03, 2012, 01:37:22 PM »

Don't do it! Yes, shorter rifles are handier, and faster to bring up. But to alter a longrifle is akin to spitting on the Alamo. Personally, I love the longer barrels. It makes the rifle look more authentic and it gives you the longer sighting radius that relates to tighter groups. The best m/l I ever had was an early Lancaster from Jim Chambers. It had a 44" swamped barrel. I never had trouble bringing it up and finding that brass blade in the rear notch. I wore that rifle out. To shorten a longrifle's length is to destroy its balance.
If you do decide to shorten it, you will likely make sure you don't kill the gun's accuracy by a botched job. I'm not at all sure you can just take a hacksaw and cut the end off. I'd get a gunsmith to do it, or someone who knows that the last fraction of an inch of a barrel greatly affects accuracy. I don't think a very short barrel with a slow twist allows enough time for the ball to stabilize. However, orignial long-barrel muzzleloaders had long barrels because the black powder available then was inferior to what we have now. They needed the long length for the powder to burn. It's my opinion that a dose of modern day blackpowder is efficient in any length rifle barrel, but even the early Hawkens did not have barrels of 28" like the reproductions of today. They were heavy and long. I think long is better, but most shooters and hunters don't agree with that. I just suggest that you think long and hard about whacking off the stock and barrel of a nice longrifle.

Hank08 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2012, 05:26:33 AM »

Lakota, Yes, I've done it many times for shooters with this problem. Straight barreled guns with looong heavy barrels, too heavy for them to hold comfortably for offhand shooting. It's easy enough to do but you will have to recrown the barrel and recut the dovetail for the front sight and reshape the stock like the original and shorten the ramrod. You can usually remove about 10" without having to change the thimbles location. H08

lakota · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2012, 06:29:55 AM »

I bought this gun used. If I ever have one built for my self I will go with a 36" barrel or a swamped 42" barrel. I love the looks of the 42" barrel. If I have this done I will go down to 36" I definatley dont have any interest in going any shorter. I have handled guns with 36" barrels and I think they are fairly comfortable to shoot off-hand. It will still be a long rifle just not as long of a longrifle.

necchi · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2012, 06:30:45 AM »

Yes it can be done,
But why not sell it and buy what you want?
It very likley has more value now than it will once it's been modified.

Semisane · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2012, 01:52:47 PM »

It's your gun. You like it, except for the barrel length. Cut that sucker.

Cutting a barrel with a hacksaw, truing it square with a file, and crowning the muzzle is no big deal. There's no need to pay a smith big bucks for a simple job like that.

srussell · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2012, 06:08:17 PM »

you cut it straight and get a good crown on it. and you will have a shooter. in my opinion the crown is the most important part of the barrel

Garry robinson · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2012, 04:12:57 PM »

Lakota. Im no expert by any stretch of the word but i saw a traditions hawken woodsmen that had been sawed of to 18 inches and the new owner said at 25 yrds off a bench it was lucky to hit paper at all and being that yours is a bona fide long rifle how bout just look around for a shorter lighter rifle? Its yours to do whatever you want with but to cut such a beautifull gun ...i just dont think youd be happy but thats just me talking. I hope it goes well for you.

lakota · « **Reply #8 on:** December 08, 2012, 12:30:19 PM »

I am still debating this issue. I love the lines of the gun. That 42" barrel is sexy but I just cant hold it steady enough.

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BUGEYE · « **Reply #9 on:** December 08, 2012, 01:10:45 PM »

Back when I used'em, I had a CVA with 24" barrel and 12.5" LOP I loved to woods-walk with it.
it was about as fast an H&R to bring into action.

keith44 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 08, 2012, 04:12:10 PM »

My squirrel rifle has a 42" barrel, and if I had it to do over I'd go with a 36" myself. Learning how to hold these looooong guns takes time. Once you get it, you'll find it is actually steadier on target than the shorter barrel. There is also a slight ballistic advantage due to higher velocities from the same powder charge. This is slight, but it is there.

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** December 08, 2012, 05:45:55 PM »

I'd cut it....unless it's swamped a 42" barrel is going to be too heavy.

Jimbow4570 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 24, 2012, 10:58:45 AM »

I had a 16 ga smoothbore with a 42".....Cut it down to 36"..never happier..........Saw it, file the end flat and fine, use a drill with a bullet shaped grind stone to take the edge off the bore and go for it.
Its yer dang gun, Do what YOU want, It will still shoot good.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #13 on:** December 26, 2012, 06:10:43 AM »

Nothing wrong with shortening a barrel if you want shorter. I would advise that rather than just choosing an arbitrary length like 36" I would look at the location of barrel underlugs and ramrod thimbles and choose a length which won't cause odd spacing of thimbles or leave too much stock unsupported ahead of the forward underlug.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #14 on:** December 26, 2012, 11:54:47 AM »

Quote from: Garry robinson on December 07, 2012, 04:12:57 PM

Lakota. Im no expert by any stretch of the word but i saw a traditions hawken woodsmen that had been sawed of to 18 inches and the new owner said at 25 yrds off a bench it was lucky to hit paper at all and being that yours is a bona fide long rifle how bout just look around for a shorter lighter rifle? Its yours to do whatever you want with but to cut such a beautifull gun ...i just dont think youd be happy but thats just me talking. I hope it goes well for you.

Well I'd certainly never cut a rifle that short but I can't see any reason why that alone would totally ruin accuracy. I have a couple of pistols with 8" and 10" barrels which will hold all shots under 2" at 25 yards, why would an 18" barrel with a shoulder stock do worse?

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #15 on:** December 26, 2012, 03:31:39 PM »

I hate to hear you are still considering butchering a longrifle. If you can't hold it steady, which in itself seems odd, I'd hang it on the wall and buy another gun to suit your taste.
Before you chop it, think about the sight radius. One of the reasons the old timers wanted long barrels is so they could have extreme distance betweent the rear and front sight. To cut a barrel shorter is to defeat your own purpose. It might appear that your sight alignment is less forgiving than that of a longer barrel, but it is an illusion. Think about looking through a modern variable scoped rifle. When you set the image at 4, the sight picture seems steadier. Crank it up to nine, and it appears to be all over the place. It's actually the same; you simply don't notice it as much on the lower setting.
After 40 years of shooting flintlocks, I can tell you that the shorter the barrel, the more likely you will miss your offhand target. Same thing goes for caplocks, or any rifle.
Look at it another way. If you have a 2" snubnose .38, when you aim at your intended target, your sights seem to align better with less wobble. But when you shoot your 6" barrel revolver, the sight picture is less stable. That is an illusion. Your best groups will be achieved with the longer barrel even though it seems more difficult to align the sights.
A short muzzldeloader is a curse. To use one is an abomination to the spirit of muzzleloading. The modern in-lines are easier to load and shoot, but if that's all one is interested in, then by all means destroy the beauty of a full length rifle. Go ahead and join the crowd of short barrel shooters who think more of convenience than they do of authenticity.
That kind of remark gives away my love of realistic blackpowder weapons. I should not impose that on others who are in it for convenience and the extra hunting season. In the end, do and enjoy what you want.

Swampman · « **Reply #16 on:** December 27, 2012, 02:52:56 AM »

Old timmey rifles were either swamped (or tapered) and they weren't muzzle heavy. The old timers thought they needed that long barrel for velocity. Very few rifles are authentic and none of the inexpensive rifles are even close.

rdlange · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2013, 05:13:51 PM »

20 years ago, I bought a .45 LH flinter that had been left in a basement muzzle down. Had to cut the barrel to 33" among other things. Crowned it with a brass machine screw. Won alot of turkeys with this gun. My buddy says it has a lot of 'character'. Most folks have 'other' words when they first see it.

Maybe you should trade it for a shorter gun, Lehman or Hawken instead...

[edit] sorry for the feet...

Bugflipper · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2013, 01:45:06 PM »

I think I would draw file it and get the diameter down. The longer ones I have are more accurate than the shorter ones. As already stated the sight radius and muzzle weight allow for a quick steadying offhand shot. I have had to fix a few that were to heavy like you are talking about. Not a big deal just time spent on getting the diameter down. I've cut one in the past for hunting a thicket for one specific deer. I just got the cheapest used gun I could find, a cva bobcat for $50. Chopped it down to 16" and trimmed the ramrod. Cut a short starting muzzle and drilled and tapped for a front sight instead of cutting a dovetail. I had a bunch of spare sights. Blued the muzzle. After I got the deer I sold it for 75 so it paid for the little bit of time I had in it.

StrawHat · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2013, 08:21:49 AM »

lakota, if you cut the barrel, the front sight needs to be replaced and the crown needs to be squared and touched up. All of that is easy to do with simple tools. The spacing for the retaining pins or wedges will be off but that is a small price to pay to have a rifle that fits you and your style of shooting. I have rifles with barrels from 30 to 44 inches. I am getting to the time in my life that holding a heavy rifle is no longer fun. I use a shooting stick sometimes and that helps but it is just one more thing to drag along with me when shooting.

By the way, who made the rifle? We are not talking about an antique I hope.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2013, 05:16:21 AM »

Agree that if it is an antique, NO WAY, and even if its a contemporary maker of some renown you may want to reconsider, but if is a 'rack gun' no worries.
The worst ones Ive seen were cut without much thought to the esthetics, and looked it. The classic lines of these, the proportions, etc. are what makes what they are, and thats why many say leave her long. That said, you can still end up with a handsome piece by doing some eyeballin' and mocking up, sitting back and looking at it. You think 36" is what you want, but maybe 34 or 38 will look better?
On the last one I did, a Pedersoli Blue Ridge (Cabela's version) .32 for the young G-sons I had no nose cap to deal with. The wood forward of the top ramrod tube was my clue to do similar back at the rear tube. I taped it off there and looked at it and considered........then gave myself another 1/2" taped the barrel and pulled it out of the stock. I pushed an oiled patch downbore below the cutting line to keep metal bits out of the bore and would snag it latter to pull out. Using the tape as the line I wrapped tape all around as a cutting line, vised it up in padded jaws, straight and square, and with myself in the proper position and a new fine tooth hacksaw blade, cut it off, taking my time, cutting only on the forward stroke, etc. I should mention that years ago I splurged and bought one of those nice HD upgrade hacksaw frames to replace the hardware store cheapie I had used in the garage for years.
WHAT a difference in control they have! You might want to research a tad on the real proper hacksaw technique too, it ain't just hack away, its almost an art form.
Once the cutoff was complete (leave the tape or put on more to ensure no barrel nicks as you work) the barrel was mounted upright in the vise at a height I could get my small square on each barrel flat. I made sure that oiled patch was still in place (I could grab it with a needlenose latter) and carefully filed the muzzle to eyeball flat to remove most of the fine sawblade lines (this is another reason to use a new, fine blade), then went to checking with the square all around and slowly working down the high points. It goes quickly........once squared up lightly 'break' the sharp edges at the barrel flats and consider the crown and front sight.
I have my tools and techniques for such, but as mentioned by another poster it can be as simple as a round head brass screw. You may want to get to this point and we can pick it up here and move onto cutting a new sight dovetail.