Author Topic: 1903 rifle  (Read 1205 times)

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Offline catncarp

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1903 rifle
« on: March 19, 2013, 11:46:04 AM »
I have a rifle on on the top it says Remington 1903, so is this a 03 or a A3-03, thanks


serial number   3097148 pictures added
7mm-08,  223, 30-30, 30-30 ai, 357 mag, 357 max TALO, 20 gauge, 50 cal huntsman, 22 mag, 20 gauge smoothbore slug, 30-06-03 target, 20 gauge full,  NRA LIFE MEMBER,

Offline Mikey

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2013, 03:13:16 AM »
Looks like a 03.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 06:49:54 AM »
Looks like it was made around April/May 1942 so I would agree with Mikey; no shock there!   ;)
 
As I remember that was about the time little manufacturing and design changes were beginning to be made that would end up with the rifles being re-designated the 03A3.  Those transition rifles are sometimes unofficially called 03M's.
 
It doesn't really make any difference anyway.  Aside from the rear sight the modifications between the 03 and the 03A3 didn't effect the action.  Not as I remember anyway...  :-\  But when we're talking about my memory that doesn't mean much...  :(
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Offline catncarp

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 10:43:12 AM »
The biggest problem between the two is getting a scope mount, that is why I had to know
7mm-08,  223, 30-30, 30-30 ai, 357 mag, 357 max TALO, 20 gauge, 50 cal huntsman, 22 mag, 20 gauge smoothbore slug, 30-06-03 target, 20 gauge full,  NRA LIFE MEMBER,

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 10:50:48 AM »
 ???
Richard
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2013, 03:36:22 PM »
If it is a Remington it is an 03A model.
The rear sight is missing and it looks like a bar of steel was added to nake a rear base.  My guess is some one added a block to the rear of the action to level the action to accept a Weaver rail. 
The Spring field 1903 Model did not have the rear peep sight byut a tangent sight on the barrel similar to the Mauser rifle sights.
 

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 03:50:48 PM »
If it is a Remington it is an 03A model.

Hey McWoody!   ;D  03A?   ???  I am familiar with the Remington 03's, made on the old Rock Island Armory equipment for an Australian contract I think, and the 03A3.  Did I get the nomenclature wrong?

Quote
...it looks like a bar of steel was added to make a rear base.

I noticed that also.  Kind of strange looking.  Sort of like a home gunsmithing effort to level the rear bridge.  If I think of it I'll dig out my Remington 03 and A3 and take a couple of pictures for comparison.
Richard
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2013, 03:59:08 PM »
Alt Law.
When I was at Military School I was the arms SGT and was in charge of 101 Remington and Smith and Corona models
On the barrel it Said 03-A above or below the fire ball. and below or below the fire ball (Ordance aceptance stamp) was the Date
Later when I was the Color Sgt I was issued a Spring field 1903 that on the barrel just said 03  and the date.
I thought the 03A3 was the 03A with a pistol grip stock.  And the 03A2 was the strait wrist stock and the 03A4 was the sniper vairiant.

Offline AtlLaw

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2013, 04:13:48 PM »
Darn!  Learn something new every day... Thank Heaven!   ;D
 
I'll check the barrels on mine also.  All I remember is the ordinance mark and the date.   :-\
 
AFAIK (or remember) no 03A3's ever left either manufacturer with the pistol grip (03A1) stock.  The Remingtons always had the straight stock 'cause they made their own from the get-go, and Springfield Armory gave all their A1 blanks to Smith Corona which became the scant stock.  There's more to that but I can't remember what...  ::)
 
The Sniper Rifles were designated as the A4 but some were still marked A3 in the beginning.  As I remember of course!  I can't be positive about anything anymore!   ;)
Richard
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 04:26:21 PM »
Darn!  Learn something new every day... Thank Heaven!   ;D
 
I'll check the barrels on mine also.  All I remember is the ordinance mark and the date.   :-\
 
AFAIK (or remember) no 03A3's ever left either manufacturer with the pistol grip (03A1) stock.  The Remingtons always had the straight stock 'cause they made their own from the get-go, and Springfield Armory gave all their A1 blanks to Smith Corona which became the scant stock.  There's more to that but I can't remember what...  ::)
 
The Sniper Rifles were designated as the A4 but some were still marked A3 in the beginning.  As I remember of course!  I can't be positive about anything anymore!   ;)
I had three rifles that were Remingtons with the pistol stock.  Not sure if they were original as we had many replacement stocks as the drill teams were always dropping them and splitting stocks.  But I remember all three were late war. 
And this is waht I remember, but I can not grab a book and put my finger on an author that said it.  I will look in the library and see what I can find on the 1903A series.
I also thought the 1903 was the Springfield we all know and love after they were rechambered for .30-06 and the 1903A1 was the one with the cleaning rod bayonett.  but agin I could be wrong.

Offline Larry L

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2013, 04:38:19 PM »
Per arsenal records, Remington was given the contract to make 600,000 Springfield 1903s using Rock Island equipment. The starting serial number was 3,000,000. These rifles were made specifically for Lend Lease with the initial contract for 134,000 Model 1903 rifles. Yours is an early Lend Lease rifle Model 1903. The O3A3 was not standardized until 21 May, 1942. Considering yours is an early rifle, the receiver should be 2340 steel. Kindly remember though, there are extremely few original Springfields out there. Most have been thru arsenal refits MANY times with the newer parts added and brought up to new specs. If it was issued, it's been thru at least one refit.
In regards to the rear sight, it's obviously been modified for a sporting scope. The drilling for the front mount screws is an after the fact and didn't add any value to the rifle. You have a nice sporting rifle that's made on a Springfield action. It can never be a full military rifle again. If you own it to use it, it's a dandy.


What some of you might be referring to the A model would be receivers that were given a serial number but the receiver didn't test so it was supposed to be destroyed. But some didn't get destroyed but were fixed. The serial number was given to another new receiver. So there were receivers that had duplicate serial numbers. They stamped an A in front of the serial number to distinguish it as a separate rifle. There was no 1903A Springfield.

Offline Richard P

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2013, 12:22:04 PM »
Didnt the '03s have milled trigger guards and mag followers, and the 03a3s had stamped guards and followers ?   

Offline Larry L

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2013, 04:51:48 PM »
RichardP, not exactly. You'd have to go back to November 1936 and see that there were actually 649 changes made to the manufacture of the Springfield. The changes were to bring the manufactured parts to be so close in tolerance that any part would fit any rifle. There were a lot of the parts tested and some used that were stamped. It wasn't until April 1942 though, that the requirement for stamped parts like the floor plate and follower, was actually approved even though there was already some in use.
As the war effort grew, they were making 3000 Springfields a day. This was not near enough to keep up with demand. The standardization of parts meant they could take any 03 and rebuild it using non wearing parts like the floor plate, the follower, etc. As the rifles came in for rebuild, the non-wearable parts went into bins where they were inspected and put back on the line for reassembly on newly rebuilt rifles. That's a major reason why there are so few original 03s as most had at least one rebuild and some as many as 8 rebuilds. It's not uncommon to see milled parts on later 03's or stamped on early 03s and the rifle be in acceptance by the inspector. Same goes with the wood. As the stocks came in, they were separated from the metal parts, roughly refinished, stamped with the rebuilders initials and sent on to where newly rebuilt rifle was screwed into it. There was no consideration given to it being a pistol grip or scant stock, just put a complete, rebuilt rifle together and get it back in the field.

Offline Richard P

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Re: 1903 rifle
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2013, 10:25:39 AM »
LarryL,  thank you for your detailed knowledge and research.  We all know ''small pieces of the puzzle'' that is Military Surplus rifles. It takes time and diligence to gather your depth.  I'm sure it covers decades. rp