Projects

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Hi, I'm nanuk, and I'm a HandiHolic

I have recently purchased an unknown (to me, and perhaps the seller) receiver.

it was advertized as a NEF 20ga

I researched the FAQ's et al, and find it to be a case colored, NEF-SB1, SN (NF) date 1991.  Transfer bar appears to work well.

it has a tall hammer and a small Firing Pin, measured smaller than 0.070
Suh-WHEEET trigger!

As it falls into the "Newer" realm of SB1's, I'm thinking any shotgun barrel, save the USH/10ga, and low pressure rounds like the Hornet, 30-30, 357Maggie/Maxi, 44Maggie, 45/70SAAMI.


here is where I start off on a tangent.

I have a couple (or more) H&R-SB2 frames of recent manufacture, and they simply don't handle the barrels from my TrackerII 20ga Slugger.  ( have 2 more to try, but it isn't looking good, but they will get tested )

I'm going to try the TrackerII on this NEF-SB1 frame, as well, I have a couple 357Maggies to try, three 30-30's to try, and one 45/70 (an NEF that doesn't come close to fitting on an H&R-SB2)

I have an older Pardner 12ga that locks up Vault Tight on a newer SB2, won't come close to the NEF 45/70 frame.  It will stay with the H&R-SB2's

Ultimately, I'd like to have  the 20Ga Slugger, one of the 357's (eventually reamed to Maxi), one of the 30-30's (eventually reamed to AI, hoping for the 158Barrel), the NEF 45/70 (eventually reamed to Ackley Improved  ), and the Hornet (eventually reamed to KHornet) all fitting one frame.

I have a 157, and 158 that are case colored, but no SB2's and I really like the case colored frame, even though some of the color is thinning on this new to me SB1, with some oil/steel wool rust removal.

So, I'm thinking of fitting those barrels to the new (to me) SB1.

The FAQ's are good, but there are some holes, but you can pick up tidbits here and there...  but never when you need them, and with the SEARCH function AWOL, are impossible for me to find...

so, my questions:

I have read in the past where some 157/158's have lugs that are NOT welded.
What YEAR is the soldered lug cutoff??  I need to take a good look at mine....  welds are easy to see, but thought I'd ask first.

any reason to NOT fit a Hornet/KHornet to an SB1?

any reason to NOT fit a 30-30/AI to an SB1? (Welded lug only)

any reason to NOT fit a 45/70 to an SB1? ( keep the discussion within SAAMI )

AFAIK the ONLY chambering not ever issued on an SB1 or similar is the Hornet, but to me that one is a no-brainer.

This is planned to be an Heirloom type investment for my Grandson.  (He is 4, I have a few years to work on this)
I'm thinking I'll fit two butt stocks.  One with a shorter LOP and one regular.  The rifles will wear Skinners, and have a MC stock taken down to fit the sights.  (the only barrel I can see that may give me sighting issues is the 20Ga TrackerII, But I will look into D&Ting it for a Skinner as well.

If Lady Luck doesn't smile on me, I'll have to completely rethink my goal, but till then.....

[petemi]

I do it the other way around as do many here.  I keep extra frames.  When I get a new barrel, I swap it around on the frames.  Invariably, one of them locks up tight.  If not, I'll tinker with the one that fits best until it's right. Right now, none of mine are shimmed in any way.  Then it gets its own stock set and its done.  I've given up on the one frame multi-barrel concept.  It is a PITA fitting several barrels to one frame.  If you finally get it done, then you have to change them out when you want another caliber.  If you use butt stock cartridge holders, they have to be changed too.  Furthermore, most of us agree there will be some change in POI which will need to be corrected.  My handis are all complete rifles, carefully sighted in and ready to go, complete with ammo.  All I have to do is pick one up and walk out the door.

Pete

[quickdtoo]

Any frame made by H&R that doesn't have a two letter serial number prefix starting with N or H was made by H&R Inc in 1986 or earlier and isn't an SB-? anything, the SB designation started in 1987,  the vintage H&R Inc frames are cast iron similar to the modern SB1 frames made 1987 and later by NEF and H&R1871. Same goes for the barrels, barrel made by H&R Inc have induction silver soldered underlugs made for low pressure chamberings only that came from the factory, those rifle barrels are slimmer in contour similar to a modern Superlight, but longer. Every chambering you mentioned except the 30-30AI was an H&R Inc factory available chambering and will work fine, even the 30-30AI will work fine as long as it isn't hotrodded. 

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,229838.msg1099278933.html#msg1099278933

[gcrank1]

I guess there have been a 'few(?)' silver soldered underlugs that have had issues, but a 'properly' silver soldered assembly will be very strong. We are not talking about the kind of soldering used for copper water pipe here!
As long as you have the small firing pin suitable for rifle primers to avoid the flow problem and dont try to 'magnumize' your loads I think there is nothing wrong with your idea.

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

Petemi, I understand the sentiment, but I'm looking for an Heirloom kinda thing.. something special that "Gido" hands down.

Quick, thanks for the reassurance.

gcrank1, I'm refering ONLY to factory "Silver Soldered" stuff..   so it would be the high temp silver braze, like my 500 Double rifle was...

one of these days, I'm going to take all my rifles out, and try them out, and WRITE DOWN what I find!
My Forgetter is strong lately

[cwlongshot]

I dont understand what your looking to hear then... It appears your questions have been answered. Maybe I miss understand...

I'll add the answers to your questions in italics following them.

So, my questions:

I have read in the past where some 157/158's have lugs that are NOT welded.
What YEAR is the soldered lug cutoff??  I need to take a good look at mine....  welds are easy to see, but thought I'd ask first.

any reason to NOT fit a Hornet/KHornet to an SB1? This was infact a factory chambering with the 157/158 so its fine on a SB1.

any reason to NOT fit a 30-30/AI to an SB1? (Welded lug only) This was a factory chambering with the 157/158 so its fine on a SB1. As long as you don't hot rod it.

any reason to NOT fit a 45/70 to an SB1? ( keep the discussion within SAAMI ) This was a factory chambering with the 157/158 so its fine on a SB1. As long as you stick with ''TRAP DOOR'' level loadings. (Personally I DO NOT recomend this, as far too many folks load the 45/70 hot to take the chance. If your leaving this to someone, I am sure you would not want to take this chance.)

AFAIK the ONLY chambering not ever issued on an SB1 or similar is the Hornet, but to me that one is a no-brainer. (As far as I can tell this is a true statement, BUT it WAS offered in a earlier frame. So its still safe on a SB1 frame.)

This is planned to be an Heirloom type investment for my Grandson.  (He is 4, I have a few years to work on this)
I'm thinking I'll fit two butt stocks.  One with a shorter LOP and one regular.  The rifles will wear Skinners, and have a MC stock taken down to fit the sights.  (the only barrel I can see that may give me sighting issues is the 20Ga TrackerII, But I will look into D&Ting it for a Skinner as well.

If Lady Luck doesn't smile on me, I'll have to completely rethink my goal, but till then.....

CW

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

CW

all my questions have been answered.

as to the 45/70, I look at them this way.   SAAMI is SAAMI.   I had a '73 springer, and that same warning would be attached to it.

AFAIK, ALL 45/70 factory, commercial ammo is safe for TD's in good condition and therefore would also be safe in a factory chambered handi on an SB1

if one is to hotrod, then one needs to know the limits of the gun.  That goes for ANY gun.

its all good, I have the info I need.  Now to do some checking!

[cwlongshot]

CW

all my questions have been answered.

as to the 45/70, I look at them this way.   SAAMI is SAAMI.   I had a '73 springer, and that same warning would be attached to it.

AFAIK, ALL 45/70 factory, commercial ammo is safe for TD's in good condition and therefore would also be safe in a factory chambered handi on an SB1

if one is to hotrod, then one needs to know the limits of the gun.  That goes for ANY gun.

its all good, I have the info I need.  Now to do some checking!

Maybe these are not available to you up north, but there are a couple companys who make and sell hot 45-70 ammunition. Most definately above the 28k SAMMI spec. These are defineately NOT safe in a SB1 or firearm made for Trap Door level loadings.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570reviews.html

https://www.buffalobore.com/

Of coarse any caliber could be hot rodded. But the 45-70 is one that most do load above SAMMI spec. Again, My thinking is because of your comment of a airloom rifle.. meaning your expertise and guidance would not be there...

CW

[hoytcanon]

It looks like I am late to the party and the questions have been answered, but by way of confirmation here is what I would have said;
 
 I have read in the past where some 157/158's have lugs that are NOT welded.
What YEAR is the soldered lug cutoff??  I need to take a good look at mine....  welds are easy to see, but thought I'd ask first.

The welds will definitely be apparent, and I would personally be more confident in a welded lug as opposed to the soldered lug.

any reason to NOT fit a Hornet/KHornet to an SB1?

No reason not to fit your K-H to the SB1 frame... I fit two of mine to .410 Tamer SB1 frames with no problems.

any reason to NOT fit a 30-30/AI to an SB1? (Welded lug only)

Both the .30/30 and the AI will also be fine on that frame... IMO.

any reason to NOT fit a 45/70 to an SB1? ( keep the discussion within SAAMI )

I personally would keep to low end SAAMI loads in the .45/70... welded or not.

AFAIK the ONLY chambering not ever issued on an SB1 or similar is the Hornet, but to me that one is a no-brainer.

As I said above, I have had no problem with the K-H's in any loading on the SB1 frame... or with hot .357/.44 Mag's either.

I like your project... it would be a very neat set to pass down to the next generation (s), and would allow them to experience all facets of shooting within the scope of the set... I used to have up to three barrels fit to each frame but found that to be unneccesary... and have in the past few years picked up additional receivers as whole guns and fitted additional barrels to them at the time of purchase (made sure of the fit before buying them)... so now my swap barrel sets are in two barrel combos... I also have half a dozen dedicated frame guns... each barrel has its own bedded forend though, which I find does make a difference... and each forend has its own dedicated take-down knob which has been sized to bottom out in the lug with correct pressure on the forearm... I am still working on a few of these, but have definitely noticed an enhancement in accuracy in doing so, when swapping barrels on frames.

[quickdtoo]

AFAIK the ONLY chambering not ever issued on an SB1 or similar is the Hornet, but to me that one is a no-brainer.

The Hornet was offered by H&R Inc in several models, the 058, 157 and 158 for sure. 

Tim

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

CW, yeah the HOT 45/70 loads are not available to me within a couple hours drive f or sure..  There are some newer stuff from Hornady, (I think) but they didn't have a warning on them about TD and such, so must be up to SAAMI standards. 

I have read that any 45/70 ammo is either SAAMI pressures, or have a "WARNING" on the box

from what I have heard, the BB and Garrett's all come with the warning on the box.

So for me, SAAMI is the cuttoff line for guns when I am talking to others, and HOT loads are in the realm of wildcats. ( I have loaded HOT for some, but I rarely do now, as there is little to gain from exceeding the Max pressures)


Hoyt:   I am thinking the dedicated forearms are for sure the way to go also.  And I like the idea of the quick detach knobs/thumb screws.  Thanks for the good idea!

my plan includes a dedicated box to contain everything, so I'd include some basic tools and some LEE-Loaders as well.