Double action shooting grip holds

[guzzijohn]

I have a S&W model 36 snubbie. Love the little gun. Have not ever practiced much using double action only. With the grip I normally use I tend to shoot several inches high if I try to rapid fire in DA. I was dry firing and watching my sights. I noticed that generally the lower I griped the gun the less barrel rise I am getting. Is that the secret?
GuzziJohn

[tacklebury]

I make sure my .357 snub is firmly into the web of the thumb with a solid grip with my middle and ring finger on the right hand and right pinky curled under, then directly below the trigger guard is where my left index finger rests and I completely wrap my left hand down interlacing fingers.  Very strong grip and allows for quick follow-up shots even with full house loads. 

[Bigeasy]

Good double action work starts with proper fitting grips.  The standard size magna style grips on a J frame do not lend themselves to good DA work for most hand sized.  You want a grip that fills your hand to prevent gun movement under the recoil of repeat shots, and allows for a straight rearword trigger pull.  Some go with custom grips, some use stock grips along with a Tyler T type adaptor.  You have to experiment and see what best fits your hand.
 
A smooth, polished, non-serrated trigger helps as well.  I do my best DA work by placing the first joint of my trigger finger on the trigger.  A smooth, steady trigger pull works best for me, though I know some shooters who like to stage their pull, completing most of the pull, then stoping, and squeezing off the rest until release.  This works best with a trigger pull that stacks, like on the older Colt revolvers, and is really not a good method for combat shooting.
 
Smith J frames tend to be a little stiffer in their pull compared to K, L, and N frames.  An action job, along with a slightly reduced main coil spring (as long as it does not comprimise reliability) can make a big difference, as can a lot of DA practice.  DA shooting has almost become a lost art now that so many have switched to semi's.
 
Larry

[Mikey]

Bigeasy:  "Good double action work starts with proper fitting grips."  Thank you.  This is so true but so many people who purchase $4-600 revolvers never consider $50 for a pair of better or properly fitted grips and cannot effectively use their revolvers as a result. 
"The standard size magna style grips on a J frame do not lend themselves to good DA work for most hand sized"  The notion of magna grips on a j-frame is a bit oxymoronish, but true - they do not lend themselves to good da work and if you have a beefy hand they do not lend themselves to any sort of accurate shooting at all, imo.
"A smooth, polished, non-serrated trigger helps as well".  Lots of folk simply do not recognize this fact for da shooting.  Truth is that we are not talking about the Jerry Miculek (?sp) type of competition shooting, we are talking about basic survival da shooting where properly fitting grips and a smooth trigger can really help you out.
 
Smith J frames tend to be a little stiffer in their pull compared to K, L, and N frames.  An action job, along with a slightly reduced main coil spring (as long as it does not comprimise reliability) can make a big difference, as can a lot of DA practice.  DA shooting has almost become a lost art now that so many have switched to semi's.  So true, and Wolf Springs makes different spring kits for the j-frames, replacement, combat and target (I believe) and they are a good idea once you get past the basics of da shooting and begin to refine your abilities.  Thanks for your input.  Spot on.
 
 
 

[spruce]

Some EXCELLENT advice in the posts above.  Not much I can add, except to say forget about rapid fire.
 
Speed will naturally come after you've truly mastered the art of double action shooting.  Take your time, shoot as accurately as you can, and if your accuracy starts to suffer you'll know your going too fast.
 
Don't get discouraged, it takes a lot of time and a lot of practice to become a good double action shooter.  Back when I was shooting PPC I probably did a few hundred dry firing cycles for every live round I fired.  Also, used to carry one of those grip exercisers around in my briefcase and used it whenever I had a few spare minutes to increase my grip strength and strength in my trigger fingers.

[guzzijohn]

Thanks for the info. I had not thought about changing the grips, will have to look into that.
GuzziJohn

[tacklebury]

+1 on the grips.  I also upgraded mine.  The little rubber boot grip was pretty short for my hands.  Here's the ones I went to.  Lets me get 3 fingers on it. 
 

[mcwoodduck]

I think there is a happy medium between grip size and use of the revolver. 
Granted the larger your hand the larger the grips need to be.  Other wise the pistol is a novelty.
Griping the revolver high will place the pivot point higher and you will have less muzzle flip.  The lower your grip in the gun the more you will see muzzle flip. 
A J Frame is not going to be the most accurate at distance.
When I was in school it helped pay the rent by teaching police how to shoot the small revolvers.
You may want ot try grips that cover the back strap of the revolver.  pushing your hand back if you have larger hands.  You can always trim the rubber grips to shorten the over all lenght of the grip making it easier to carry. 
GO shooting with a buddy.  Have him load your gun with live and empty cases in random orders and quantities.  Shooting the revolver and hitting an empty, you will see what you are doing.  Pushing down or doing the kiddie cowboy and doing the fake recoil. 
Picking a spot on the wall in the house or garage and getting snap caps  and dry firing and a spare set for a speed loader to practice reloading.
Double action shooting is about trigger control.  When I shoot in compitition, I pull the trigger till it relaxes make sure of my aim and then squeeze the rest of the way.  I find it fast and accurate. 

[guzzijohn]

Quote from mcwoodduck:
"Griping the revolver high will place the pivot point higher and you will have less muzzle flip.  The lower your grip in the gun the more you will see muzzle flip."


Interesting. The grip I have been using tends to have my shots hit several inches above my intended point in DA mode. What I was saying in my OP was that I tried dry firing and seeing where my aim point was after pulling the trigger through. With my normal higher hold the aim point would show I my sights several inches high. If I lowered my grip and dry fired my sights were almost back on target. I haven't fooled around yet with live ammo with different holds but may be able to this evening. I have sm/med hands.
Another question, I feel I would only use double action for relatively quick shooting using a smooth steady trigger pull until the gun fires. I do not understand why one would "stack" the trigger. If you are going to do that why not use single action? Concerning action, accuracy, etc. This is a mid 60s gun in like new condition with the pined barrel. The action and trigger are very light and smooth. I inherited it from an aunt and I doubt she had any trigger/action work done. I can consistently put 4/5 into a 4x6" target at 50' using single action. It is a nice shooting piece.
GuzziJohn

[mcwoodduck]

I use the tenique that has me pulling the trigger masot of the way and knowing how the trigger breaks allows me ot shoot smoothly and still hit targets.  While what you call stacking the trigger does take a little time to learn and may be a little slower than setting the hammer once you do it a few times it will be come smooth and easy.  Smooth is fast. 
As to the grip I am talking about recoil, the higher the hold on the frame the faster the follow up shots will be. 
If holding the grip low helps you to align the sights easier you may want to buy a a few different style grips and see if any of them allow you to hold the gun better and higher on the frame to manage recoil.  Try a pair of larger grips, try a pair that covers the back strap of the gun and moves your hand back.
Head ot the range.  Grab a larger target and flip it over add either stickers of targets or just use magic markers and number them  have your buddy call  out the numbers in a random order.  Shifting from target to target will help you to work on smooth trigger pulls and figure out when your trigger will break.  like anything you will not become a master at it over night and you will never become smooth and efficient at the J frame until you go to the range. 

[guzzijohn]

Quote from mcwoodduck:
"like anything you will not become a master at it over night and you will never become smooth and efficient at the J frame until you go to the range. "


The good news is that the range is stepping out onto my deck .

[mcwoodduck]

Don't let the liberals see you are shooting near water, they will go after you for water polution. 
Nice yard.