Author Topic: Remington 700 .450 Bushmaster (Read 2805 times)

Dixiejack · « **on:** June 17, 2013, 04:12:17 PM »

I have a wild idea on having my 700 SPS Varmint in .308 rebored and rechambered to .450 Bushmaster. Cut the barrel back to 22". Want to set it up for a close in hog, deer, and whatever I encounter in the swamps where I hunt. Probably would not be that great of an advantage between the calibers. Give me some feedback.

RPRNY · « **Reply #1 on:** June 17, 2013, 04:55:31 PM »

IMHO, the 450 Bushmaster was a marginally inspired marketing gimmick at best and is a cartridge that will fade away in the not too distant future. In any event, a straight walled case in a decent bolt gun seems like implants on a chimp: vaguely interesting from a scientific perspective but largely distasteful and morally reprehensible.

Find a nice levergun in 444 Marlin or a pre Remington Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70. Or try to find an H&R Handi in 45 Colt that's been reamed to 454 Casull. I have one and load a MiniBushmaster: 250 gr FTX at 2100 fps. Also load paper patched 380 gr slicks in soft lead that will end to end any hog alive, leaving a silver dollar exit wound.

Just my opinion of course. And just like something else everyone has ;-)

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

FPH · « **Reply #2 on:** June 17, 2013, 05:06:57 PM »

I'd keep the .308 as is, and as suggested go with a .444 or .45-70.

Oldshooter · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2013, 05:22:24 PM »

Looking at the ballistics between the two I'd say realistically its a terrible waste of a good Rem 700 in 308. The 450 doesn't compare well with the 308. However, what does practicality have to do with anything? a man has to dream dont he? Heck go for it.........got any 308 ya wanna sell ?

Hornady says a 308 165 gr interbond has 2840 fps muzzel velocity with 2955 ftlbs energy.
The 450 bushmaster with 250 gr ftx has 2200 fps muzzel velocity with 2686 ft lbs energy

Now the ftx 450 may transfer more energy to the target than the supr bond 308

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2013, 02:49:43 AM »

come on guys. Have you never did something just to do it. Bottom line about any wildcat round these days can be matched by something commercial. Ive killed hogs with my beowulf and watched them killed by 450s and 308s and am here to testify that the 450 does hit harder at close range. I think it would be kind of a cool project to play with. Only thing id do differnt is wack that barrel to 16-18 inch.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2013, 05:30:52 AM »

How I come up with this idea is that I had a .450 Bushmaster AR 15 upper and a range acquaintance shot it a lot (my ammo) and put into wanting to buy it. I made him a super high price on the Bushmaster AR 15 in 5.56/.223 rifle and the .450 upper, mainly to get rid of him. Darned if he didn't pull out a roll that would choke a mule and commenced to peel off the green (made me wish I had jacked the price up). Well that left me with lot of .223 and .450 ammo. I have 2 700 SPS Varmint rifles. One in .223, which I shoot a lot and the other in .308 which I don't shoot much. Looking at all those .450 rounds and nothing to shoot them in just got me to thinking about a 700 in .450. Might even go to a 18 or 20 inch barrel length.

I've got a Contender G2 rifle but haven't found any information on whether the frame could take the pressure of the .450 Bushmaster. Also, haven't seen custom Contender barrels being offered in .450 Bushmaster or Thumper as originally called. That would be another option.

My go to swamp gun is a Remington 870 with a cantilever rifled barrel and slugs. I have a Burris Tac 30 with a fastfire III mounted on top of the scope mounted on the barrel. Nice rig one you get used to not being able to get a weld on the stock.

I have digressed. You have given me some food for thought both negative and positive. Might continue to check out the TC Contender route.

leadbutt · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2013, 09:43:01 AM »

I don't see why it wouldn't work, have used a couple of converted rifles that belong to buddies that where done up in 450 Marlin and a 458x2" American, basically the same but belt thickness is a tad different, loaded up with the 350jhp they have done great work on hogs and a couple of black bears

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2013, 01:06:05 AM »

tell you something it would be real cool with is shooting cast bullets. You could make up some real cheap ammo that hit like a sledgehammer.

moto357 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2013, 09:39:42 AM »

I would have to agree with Lloyd Smale, this sounds like a cool and fun project. and for your purpose seems like it would fit the bill, and did I mention it sounds cool too? I also like the idea of cast bullets, but all in all I think having one of these on a 700 action would be a lot of fun. heavy contour barrel at 18-20" would be pretty nasty looking too

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2013, 10:05:03 AM »

Sounds interesting.
But....
The 450 Bushmaster uses a rebated rim of a 223 Rem round and is about 375 in Diameter the 308 has a rim of 473 so you would have to close up the bolt face or buy a new 223 bolt for the gun. (making an idea for a swap barrel rifle set of 223, 308 and 458 Bushmaster using three barrels and two bolts)
As others have said a 450 Marlin chambered gun may be a better idea. A little larger of a case that can equal what hot 45-70 does or be down loaded to shoot almost anything else.
My favorite round is 308 Win. I think it is perfect for deer and your average pig. If you are hunting Pigzilla then the larger bullet would make sense. Or is you just want to wamp them. Personally I would keep the Rem 700 as is and if the bolt action 45 caliber pig wacker is still wanted then I would look for an older Mauser Bubba Sporter or real bad beat up Rem 700 if you want to stay with the same action. Buy them cheap and take them to the gun smith.
Years ago I had the idea to make a bolt action 45-70 then project is still on going. Someone suggested making a 458 WM and reloading to 45-70 levels. I was not sure the 458 would fit in the 98 action and the suggestion of the 458X2" was an option. A year later or so Marlin came out with the 450 Marlin and except for the thikness of the rim was exactly 458 X 2 and had I waited a year I would have gone with it instead and been shooting it on a regular basis as the 98 Mauser action is easy to get parts for and stocks. the Siamese action took a while to find all the parts and was more expensive.
Building up a good thumper would make a great brush gun for pigs and deer as well as black bear with either peep, open express sights or a low power scope, what ever you prefer. But still have the 308 to reach out a little with a 3-9 or 4-12 scope.
After you build up the 458 and keep the 309 toss in a 223 and a 22 LR and you have to perfect 4 gun rifle battery for North America.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2013, 04:11:40 AM »

mcwoodduck, The rebated rim of the .450 Bushmaster is the same diameter as the .308--.473. The dia. at the base of the .308 case is .473 and .500 on the .450 case. I'm not a gunsmith, so this is conjecture on my part, I would think the bolt head would work w/o altering it. Would probably have to work on the extractor. Just a guess. Also, the .450 Bushmaster uses a .452 bullet. Two other reasons I'm considering building on my 700 SPS is I'm left handed and it's left handed plus my reach out there gun is a 700 BDL left hand in .270 Winchester that I've had for 36 years.

Lloyd, The price of Hornady bullets and brass just about equals the cost of factory loaded rounds. Getting back into casting is a viable idea.

I mentioned about the possibility of having a Contender or Encore barrel built, I emailed Bull Berry and they said the rebated rim would not work with the ejector. I am not too familiar with TC after market vendors and gunsmiths, so I haven't followed up on it. The .450 would make a slick pig sticker in a 16" or 18" bull barrel.

Thanks for all the pro and con feedback and please keep them coming.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** June 25, 2013, 08:07:41 AM »

Sounds like a good plan , I would go with a 16-18 inch barrel and thread it so you can set the muzzle up for suppressor or recoil reduction. You would have a real thumper for close in work and one not everyone has.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2013, 06:40:09 PM »

Have you considered selling all your .450 Bushmaster stuff and getting a .45-70? I think it would be cheaper in the long run...

Tony

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2013, 02:35:19 AM »

If no one ever decided to try something new we would have only a couple rounds or rifles to shoot them in. If you go 45-70 can you go bolt action ? if you go 45-70 in a lever gun you limit bullets you can use. If you wish to suppress which will work better ? The 45-70 a very old good round has limitations . You also pay for innovation .
There was a gun called a Brute back in the early 80's , a XP-100 in 458 win mag cut down. It was very powerful. I think this project will equal or surpass that one.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #14 on:** June 26, 2013, 03:25:57 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on June 26, 2013, 02:35:19 AM

If no one ever decided to try something new we would have only a couple rounds or rifles to shoot them in. If you go 45-70 can you go bolt action ? if you go 45-70 in a lever gun you limit bullets you can use. If you wish to suppress which will work better ? The 45-70 a very old good round has limitations . You also pay for innovation .
There was a gun called a Brute back in the early 80's , a XP-100 in 458 win mag cut down. It was very powerful. I think this project will equal or surpass that one.

Yes you can go 45-70 in a bolt action but you need a Siamese action. They are a lot of work to make them work well. Bilt actions work best with a necked rimless round and the neck need to be at least 1/3 the diameter of the case. So if you have a .75 case diameter you need a .5 bullet Like a 416 or 44 does not work on a 308/ 30-06 case for a bolt action.
Most bolt actions either head space off the shoulder or off of a belt. The belt is why the 458 and 375 H&H large and large medium bore rounds work that have almost no shoulder. A rim is what spaces on the rimmed round.
With a mauser you could make it pick up the rim of a rimless and use it to head space easier, With the Remingtom push feed reloading is going to have ot be crucial and neck case length is going to have to be perfect. Too short and the CTG will be pushed in and the firing pin may or may not breake the primer, too long and the bolt will not close. Other rebated rounds like 284 Win still use the shoulder to head space. I think he will have problems making it work all the time and not something I would want on a Wild PIG brush gun where they will be close. I am not sure how the 450 Bushmaster works in an auto loader or how reliable it is.
Again why I said the Marlin 450 or 458X2" Similar ballistics and head spacing on the rim. The reason why they made the belt different on the Marlin is so a 458 Win Mag could not be loaded and fired out of the lever action.
And yes if we did not have new things to try we would all be Col Cooper and support only a few rounds like 22LR, 308/ 30-06, 375H&H, 10mm, 44 mag, and 45 ACP He said with these there is nothing you can not do. He was the grandfather of the 40 S&W and hated it and was not fond of the 376 Styer that they made to douplicate 375H&H but to fit in a short action of his designed Scout rifle but was not 100% of the velocity.

geezerbiker · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2013, 07:17:54 PM »

Pattern 14 Enfield rifles also convert to .45-70 well...

Tony

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2013, 01:23:17 AM »

why go to all that work when a simple barrel switch will work ?

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2013, 05:33:27 AM »

Quote from: geezerbiker on June 26, 2013, 07:17:54 PM

Pattern 14 Enfield rifles also convert to .45-70 well...

Tony

Don't you have problems with the length of the 45-70 in the mag vs the length of the 303Brit being quite a bit longer?
But again it head spaces on the rim.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #18 on:** June 28, 2013, 06:16:45 AM »

As easy as the wind changes directions, so do topics on forums. The only thing in common with my OP is we are still in the .45 cal. range. I have been blessed with more information and advice than I ever hoped. As of this a.m., I put the 700 .450 Bushmaster project on the back burner. Not giving up on it entirely. The 700 .308 got saved from desecration. I got a heck of a deal on a .450 Bushmaster complete upper assembly (16" barrel), 5 magazines, and 57 rounds of Hornady ammo.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2013, 06:31:34 AM »

The 458 Socom uses the same bolt face as the 308. The 450 Bushmaster does not. Like someone said, it uses the rebated rim of the AR-15 bolt. The 458 Socom also can use 45-70 bullets. The 450 Bushmaster uses smaller bullets. Why not just buy you another AR? Get the same barrels again.

pitted bore · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2014, 07:48:19 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude

The 458 Socom uses the same bolt face as the 308. The 450 Bushmaster does not. Like someone said, it uses the rebated rim of the AR-15 bolt. The 458 Socom also can use 45-70 bullets. The 450 Bushmaster uses smaller bullets. Why not just buy you another AR? Get the same barrels again.

The general forum malfuntion that has temporarily wiped out 8 months of posting has brought this thread back near the top. If the Remington forum doesn't mind, I'll take advantage of this to comment on a misconception, along with trying to respond helpfully to the OP and other possibly interested members of the forum.

In fact, as noted above, the 450 Bushmaster case has exactly the same 0.473" rim diameter as the 308 Winchester case, and uses the same bolt face. The 450B case was based on a shortened 284 Winchester case, and has the same 0.473" rim diameter and 0.500" head diameter as the 284. Both the 284 and 450B are rebated, with a rim diameter less than the head, but they use the same 0.473" bolt face as a myriad of other cartridges.

An image below from an edited SAAMI drawing for the 450B case is given below, showing the case rim and head dimensions.

If a 700 Remington rifle in 308 Win should be converted to shoot the 450B cartridge, it will have no problems caused by bolt-face mismatch. The possibility of some feeding problems caused by the larger case diameter of the 450B might need to be checked.

Conversions of several different bolt-action rifles to use the 450B cartridge are described and illustrated in the bolt rifle subforum of the 450bushmaster.com website. Here's a link:
450 Bushmaster Bolt Action Rifles.

--Bob
.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #21 on:** January 31, 2014, 03:05:18 PM »

pitted bore, thanks for posting that information. I am still playing around with the idea of rebarreling a .308 bolt action, but haven't found a gunsmith that has a .450 Bushmaster reamer.
I tried to register with that .450B forum you linked, but they don't think my yahoo address that I have had for 16 years is valid. That forum would be a great source of information.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2014, 12:59:25 AM »

another option is to go to 450 marlin or 458x2. Youd have to open the bolt face up for a magnum case head in either case.

Dixiejack · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2014, 03:44:47 PM »

I am beginning to see a lot of options and thanks for the opinions, but the .308 bolt will work and I am sure since I got this idea that the .450 Bushmaster will actually be an excellent bolt action round, I am going to follow through. I suggest you doubters take a peek at the link that "pitted bore" posted. I spent a couple of hours reading their posts and I came away impressed what some guys are doing with bolt action .50B's. And 1. It seems like a fairly easy conversion, 2. the .450B round is very accurate in a bolt gun, and 3. it's my dime on my time. Not to get anyone PO'd, but go back through this thread and count the number of rifle/caliber conversions. The best advice I got was from Lloyd about shooting cast bullets and let's welcome our new member "pitted bore" who made his first post on this thread.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #24 on:** February 02, 2014, 12:21:09 AM »

cool thing with the 450 would be the option to shoot bullets from 150 to 400 grain. Even in jacketed bullets theres a wide range of weights that would work hunting anything from rabbits to buffalo out to 200 yards