Scopes that Easily Adjust by Hand?

[flmason]

Hi All,
    Getting together my first scoped sporter in my life. Ruger M77 in 30-06. Been wondering, since '06 has range of bullet weights from around 110-120 gr. to 220... and loadings from light "The Load" types to full blown dangerous game loads....

What scope(s) have adjustments that are easy to use for lots of different loadings? As opposed to say one that takes a screwdriver.

I've looked at some old Milsurps, like Mosin Snipers (most likely fakes or scope added to plain jane rifle) and they seem to have turrets readily designed for changing the settings.

A lot of hunting scopes I've seen over the years, pretty much need a screwdriver or a coil on the adjustment under the cap.

Can anyone educate me on this?

The idea is to be able to develop loads in different energy and velocity ranges and be able to just change the scope setting for each load, on the fly, without a lot of fuss.

[cudatruck]

i don't think this is easily done.....but can it be done? perhaps you will be the one to discover the secret? some guys use a dot type scope and learn which dot to use at what range with each load. some find a low power load luckily that shoots to point of aim at a close range that matches a higher powered one at a long range. There are scopes with BDC adjustments for a given caliber and bullet weight. but that is for range adjustment of a known loading. Good luck in your search if you find such a thing let us know!

[Empty Quiver]

First and foremost you must concentrate on scopes with repeatability. That is key to easy. Next you need to keep meticulous notes on which direction from zero you turned the dials, and which round you last zeroed for.


Target turrets might be your best choice. Again you will need to be methodical about note keeping.


Might consider two scopes on good QD mounts swap as needed. An advantage with this setup, is when you decide your gun ain't worth a hoot for ground hogs you can pick up a nice .22-250 and already have the scope on hand. 

[spruce]

A lot of the newer scopes can be adjusted by turning the adjusters with your fingers and require no coin or screwdriver.
 
Check the various manufacturers websites, it should mention this in the description of the scope.
 
You'd still have to remove the caps to make the adjustment.  Like mentioned above, target knobs are an option.  I don't much care for them, they look too big and bulbous to suit me.

[mcwoodduck]

I think there is a different answer.
Figure out a single round you want for your general hunting.  150, 165, 180 grain soft points.  If ind cheap and popular is good.  The y work well on deer and pigs.  And gets you more trigger time. 
If you are headed out to hunt something different or special then you simply buy a few boxes of that special ammo.  Go back to the range and send a few down range.  When you have a good group, simply move the cross hairs and then verify and adjust if needed. 
Make a note on the new ammo of what  you did to move the cross hairs 3L 5D so you can undo it back to your standard ammo and if you are going to use them again simply dial.  The Blue masking tape and a magic marker is needed in your range bag.
You are not going to carry multiple grain or bullet designs in the woods in N America,  We have few combo hunts.  If you are on a combo hunt for Elk and Deer or Bear and Deer you will carry the ammo for the larger game and just shoot the smaller with the same bullet.  You are not going to unload, adjust the scope reload and then take a shot.  At some point ammo will be removed and adjustments may be made twice giving you no hope of hitting with either bullet. 

[STRANGE1]

Like said before repeatable, and meticulous notes are key.  Many scopes are now finger adjustable, you shouldn't have a problem finding that.  I would find one that has turrets that can be reset to zero, that way you can find a good all around load, zero it, and make adjustments for other loads/yardages from there. 

[flmason]

I think there is a different answer.
Figure out a single round you want for your general hunting.  150, 165, 180 grain soft points.  If ind cheap and popular is good.  The y work well on deer and pigs.  And gets you more trigger time. 
If you are headed out to hunt something different or special then you simply buy a few boxes of that special ammo.  Go back to the range and send a few down range.  When you have a good group, simply move the cross hairs and then verify and adjust if needed. 
Make a note on the new ammo of what  you did to move the cross hairs 3L 5D so you can undo it back to your standard ammo and if you are going to use them again simply dial.  The Blue masking tape and a magic marker is needed in your range bag.
You are not going to carry multiple grain or bullet designs in the woods in N America,  We have few combo hunts.  If you are on a combo hunt for Elk and Deer or Bear and Deer you will carry the ammo for the larger game and just shoot the smaller with the same bullet.  You are not going to unload, adjust the scope reload and then take a shot.  At some point ammo will be removed and adjustments may be made twice giving you no hope of hitting with either bullet.

So what are we saying... a turret scope where could write down "125gr, elevation 6, windage 0" and "200 gr. elevation 3, windage 1" doesn't exist?

Being so inexperienced with anything but a 4x fixed scope, I'm clueless on what's available.

In searching around on google, looks like scopes with mil-dot and tactical milling reticles seem to be paired up with exposed turrets... though they often seem to be aimed at the AR15/M16 rifles.

But haven't found a manual for one yet, so no idea how they really work.

Seems like Mil Dot, BDC or Tactical Milling reticles are a good way to go, either way.

Anyone seen the (hideously expensive) "Burris Eliminator Ballistic Laser Scope"? 

Laser ranges... then put a red dot where you need it... and the onboard computer will let you put in "drop at 500 yds"  for any load you have... and do the calculations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqTCD5CexMg

The latest one allows you to use any power not just 12x, and does wind dope...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrZqycXo9m8

Amazing but of kit... but light years away from my general philosophy of "simple and reliable", LOL!

Ya know... god forbid the programming in it has a bug. LOL!

[flmason]

Like said before repeatable, and meticulous notes are key.  Many scopes are now finger adjustable, you shouldn't have a problem finding that.  I would find one that has turrets that can be reset to zero, that way you can find a good all around load, zero it, and make adjustments for other loads/yardages from there.

Makes good sense.

Have to admit, after watching those Burris Eliminator vids... I'm having a little bit of buyers remorse having bought a gun without iron sights. Coming from a handgun background first and a mulsurp second, it just seems too"space age" for me. Attractive, no doubt. Being able to make say, a 200+ yrd shot and some guys are reliably hitting varmints ever further... hard not to be impressed by the technological achievement that is.

But I'm not sure it's "shooting" nor "hunting" per se... definitely strikes me as the correct place to use the word... "Harvest".

Have to admit, half found myself thinking... "geez, just take a 1" metal tube... but a post in the from and a pair of horizontal bolts in the back... and have "iron tube sights", LOL! I understand "back in the day" there were just plain tube sights with no lenses.

But seriously, while we're talking about it... the rifle I passed on was a Savage package with the Nikon 3x9x40 BDC model. Seems like a decent scope and the BDC reticle seems like a nice alternative to mil-dot, or tactical milling, which is the way I'm leaning if I find something in my price range that isn't some junk brand.

I realize certain names like Leupold have been the go choices for decades, but not sure I'll be in the echelon.

I'm thinking I want to be better than say Bushnell, but probably not as good a Leupold...at least in my current uneducated state.

Feel free to school me.

[mcwoodduck]

I think there is a different answer.
Figure out a single round you want for your general hunting.  150, 165, 180 grain soft points.  If ind cheap and popular is good.  The y work well on deer and pigs.  And gets you more trigger time. 
If you are headed out to hunt something different or special then you simply buy a few boxes of that special ammo.  Go back to the range and send a few down range.  When you have a good group, simply move the cross hairs and then verify and adjust if needed. 
Make a note on the new ammo of what  you did to move the cross hairs 3L 5D so you can undo it back to your standard ammo and if you are going to use them again simply dial.  The Blue masking tape and a magic marker is needed in your range bag.
You are not going to carry multiple grain or bullet designs in the woods in N America,  We have few combo hunts.  If you are on a combo hunt for Elk and Deer or Bear and Deer you will carry the ammo for the larger game and just shoot the smaller with the same bullet.  You are not going to unload, adjust the scope reload and then take a shot.  At some point ammo will be removed and adjustments may be made twice giving you no hope of hitting with either bullet.

So what are we saying... a turret scope where could write down "125gr, elevation 6, windage 0" and "200 gr. elevation 3, windage 1" doesn't exist?  They do, but unless you are going to go from Antelope on the plains on Friday to Elk in the mountains on Sat to Deer on Sunday I do not see the value for them.  If you want to get a Long Range Duplex  or a Mill dot scope to have aiming refrences then good.  I just see them as an expensive gimick. 

Being so inexperienced with anything but a 4x fixed scope, I'm clueless on what's available.   
I think a Var X I or  II 3-9 X40 Long range duplex would be a great first time all purpose scope.  the LRD has aiming cross hatches below the X and depending on where you sight it in will give you a place to put the cross hair based on range.

In searching around on google, looks like scopes with mil-dot and tactical milling reticles seem to be paired up with exposed turrets... though they often seem to be aimed at the AR15/M16 rifles. 
A hunting and tactical rife are two complete different things. I have been elk huntng on horse back and a 40mm scope is a bout as big as a guide will have a scabord for.  There are a few different turret designs. 
I am a low tech Renneck and figure Mr Murphy is always around and looking for anything loose to spin. 
But haven't found a manual for one yet, so no idea how they really work.

Seems like Mil Dot, BDC or Tactical Milling reticles are a good way to go, either way.   
Like I said the Leupold Var X 1 or II LRD in either a 3-9 or 4-12 X 40 would be a great choice for all around hunting.  In the $250 to $350 range.

Anyone seen the (hideously expensive) "Burris Eliminator Ballistic Laser Scope"?  I tend not to buy stuff I can not replace if it gets damaged by falling, sliding or being skewished.  A range finder is cheap, easy to use and can be used for multiple guns. 
You also set up the scope with the speed of the bullet and the ballistic Coefficient so it knows the drop and can move the cross hairs.  still does not help with wind.   

Laser ranges... then put a red dot where you need it... and the onboard computer will let you put in "drop at 500 yds"  for any load you have... and do the calculations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqTCD5CexMg

The latest one allows you to use any power not just 12x, and does wind dope...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrZqycXo9m8

Amazing but of kit... but light years away from my general philosophy of "simple and reliable", LOL!

Ya know... god forbid the programming in it has a bug. LOL!  Hey look Mr Murphy is checking out your scope a scond time and putting in the wrong BC and Speed of your bullet.  Bang and a miss.

[flmason]

@Mcwoodduck - Yes, I hear you... I'm wondering if I should have my head examined... I just bought my first rifle in my entire life that has no fixed sights. It must've been a full moon. I guess I wanted just one in a lifetime. But yes, some buyer's remorse for sure.

And now I have a whole new topic to absorb... scopes.

Prior to now I was quite happy with... don't laugh... partridge sights.

Probably should've just stiuck to my guns, and waited for a good example of an M1903 Springfield to find me.

[mcwoodduck]

@Mcwoodduck - Yes, I hear you... I'm wondering if I should have my head examined... I just bought my first rifle in my entire life that has no fixed sights. It must've been a full moon. I guess I wanted just one in a lifetime. But yes, some buyer's remorse for sure.

And now I have a whole new topic to absorb... scopes.

Prior to now I was quite happy with... don't laugh... partridge sights.

Probably should've just stiuck to my guns, and waited for a good example of an M1903 Springfield to find me.

Cool thing about the Ruger rifles are the Scope mounts.  You can get a peep rear sight that will mount in the rear scope mount and a front sight can be mounted on the barrel. and then replace the peep with a scope.  If for some reason the scope has an oops you can dismount it and  remount the peep for use with the mounted front sight.  You can also buy other mounts and scopes for other trips.  Mount it, check zero and hunt. 

[Lloyd Smale]

I typed a long answer to this and got that (censored word) white screan and lost it. So heres the short version. Buy yourself a box of 165 nos partitions. Load them to 2900 fps and admit to yourself that if you had to ask this your not ready for anything farther out then 300 yards and even that is going to be more of a challange then you think. An o6 isnt a dangerous game gun. Never was never will be. Loaded with that load it will take everything from antelope to moose. You are not a navy seal sniper and unless your willing to buck up near a 1000 dollars for a scope good enough to track reliably your better off learning where your gun hits at differnt ranges and holding over.

[Victor3]

 There are plenty of 'standard' loads for 30.06. Pick one, get a good scope with a mil-dot reticle and learn how to use it. That will effectively cover ~90% of the shots one might need to take.

[charles p]

My advice is to decide what you want from your rifle.  If you are hunting elk size game, the 180 grain bullet is best.  I like the 150 for  deer size animals.  Mule deer might qualify for the 165.  Your scope should be sighted accordingly.
The 06 is not the greatest varmint rifle.  If that is your passion, you should add another rifle. If you wish to shoot smaller game you need to add another rifle.  Truth is, you probably should have several rifles, to just be happy.  You can tell your wife I said so.
 

[cudatruck]

i stepped up on one zeiss scope and i really like it. but i can't afford to buy those for all the rifles! so.... started shopping for 100-150 price range for fun shooting guns out to 200 yards. so far i think we have about 5 different brands some new some used 1.5-5, 4x, 3-9x, 2,7x. they all work just fine for what we do with them. so far have not had a failure. that said, I still really enjoy looking through the zeiss! the image is just really sharp the cheaper ones tend to be more fuzzy around the edges of objects.

[flmason]

@Mcwoodduck - Yes, I hear you... I'm wondering if I should have my head examined... I just bought my first rifle in my entire life that has no fixed sights. It must've been a full moon. I guess I wanted just one in a lifetime. But yes, some buyer's remorse for sure.

And now I have a whole new topic to absorb... scopes.

Prior to now I was quite happy with... don't laugh... partridge sights.

Probably should've just stiuck to my guns, and waited for a good example of an M1903 Springfield to find me.

Cool thing about the Ruger rifles are the Scope mounts.  You can get a peep rear sight that will mount in the rear scope mount and a front sight can be mounted on the barrel. and then replace the peep with a scope.  If for some reason the scope has an oops you can dismount it and  remount the peep for use with the mounted front sight.  You can also buy other mounts and scopes for other trips.  Mount it, check zero and hunt.

Can you point me to those somewhere. Have been wondering about that idea. The Ruger rep I talked to said none of their ramp sights fit the barrel on of '06. I found that strange.

No doubt, with enough patience, if I had access to a machine shop these days, I could make whatever I want. but that's wishful thinking at the moment. Ultimately a front ramp sight is not a complicated thing... now W & E rear sight might present some problems to make it good and look nice.

[mcwoodduck]

@Mcwoodduck - Yes, I hear you... I'm wondering if I should have my head examined... I just bought my first rifle in my entire life that has no fixed sights. It must've been a full moon. I guess I wanted just one in a lifetime. But yes, some buyer's remorse for sure.

And now I have a whole new topic to absorb... scopes.

Prior to now I was quite happy with... don't laugh... partridge sights.

Probably should've just stiuck to my guns, and waited for a good example of an M1903 Springfield to find me.

Cool thing about the Ruger rifles are the Scope mounts.  You can get a peep rear sight that will mount in the rear scope mount and a front sight can be mounted on the barrel. and then replace the peep with a scope.  If for some reason the scope has an oops you can dismount it and  remount the peep for use with the mounted front sight.  You can also buy other mounts and scopes for other trips.  Mount it, check zero and hunt.

Can you point me to those somewhere. Have been wondering about that idea. The Ruger rep I talked to said none of their ramp sights fit the barrel on of '06. I found that strange.

No doubt, with enough patience, if I had access to a machine shop these days, I could make whatever I want. but that's wishful thinking at the moment. Ultimately a front ramp sight is not a complicated thing... now W & E rear sight might present some problems to make it good and look nice.

You are going to have to take hte rifle to a gun smith and have him mount a ramped front sight by a sight company like Williams (only name that comes to my mind)  the sight will have ot be a tall one as the peep is pretty high, and the peep sight is an after market part as well.  Look up Brownells, Midway, mid south and take a look in any of those catalogs for the sight.  Again if you tell the gun smith what you want he will just order it for you and install and bore sight.   

[flmason]

@Mcwoodduck - Yes, I hear you... I'm wondering if I should have my head examined... I just bought my first rifle in my entire life that has no fixed sights. It must've been a full moon. I guess I wanted just one in a lifetime. But yes, some buyer's remorse for sure.

And now I have a whole new topic to absorb... scopes.

Prior to now I was quite happy with... don't laugh... partridge sights.

Probably should've just stiuck to my guns, and waited for a good example of an M1903 Springfield to find me.

Cool thing about the Ruger rifles are the Scope mounts.  You can get a peep rear sight that will mount in the rear scope mount and a front sight can be mounted on the barrel. and then replace the peep with a scope.  If for some reason the scope has an oops you can dismount it and  remount the peep for use with the mounted front sight.  You can also buy other mounts and scopes for other trips.  Mount it, check zero and hunt.

Can you point me to those somewhere. Have been wondering about that idea. The Ruger rep I talked to said none of their ramp sights fit the barrel on of '06. I found that strange.

No doubt, with enough patience, if I had access to a machine shop these days, I could make whatever I want. but that's wishful thinking at the moment. Ultimately a front ramp sight is not a complicated thing... now W & E rear sight might present some problems to make it good and look nice.

You are going to have to take hte rifle to a gun smith and have him mount a ramped front sight by a sight company like Williams (only name that comes to my mind)  the sight will have ot be a tall one as the peep is pretty high, and the peep sight is an after market part as well.  Look up Brownells, Midway, mid south and take a look in any of those catalogs for the sight.  Again if you tell the gun smith what you want he will just order it for you and install and bore sight.

Thanks much. I'll take a look.

But to be honest, If I can't do it myself, it probably won't happen.

(Was the big attraction of the Savage for me, even though I didn't go that way.)

[mcwoodduck]

Stick a scope on it.  Sight it in and if you are headed out to the wilds of, well the wilds for a hunt you can then have the peep sight and front sight installed and bore sighted and then remount the scope, or you can buy a cheap second scope and rings, sight in the gun and if you break  your standadard scope you can just use a screw driver to mount the back up scope.  Check with your local gun shops for a used scopes. 

[Empty Quiver]

How far are you intending to shoot? what are you shooting at?


An honest answer to those two questions, might be your best guide. With little experience using optic sights you might surprise yourself with what is possible with a very simple setup.


Your rifle is likely to dictate what ammo you will use whether you like it or not. If a three hundred yard shot is out of the question, there is likely no need for the BDC type reticles. The 06 is not really a slow round after all, and unless competition is the game, a deer within 250 yds will be in mortal danger without any turret manipulation or Kentucky windage I dare say.

[mcwoodduck]

Empty Quiver,
I offered to take FLmason shooting here in CA he does not live too far from a great club and let him see what he wants as far as action and optics.  he has not responded to my PM. 
One of the shoots I go to is a running deer shoot that is a 20 round shoot, and you shoot 4 rounds at a deer that is on a pully system. 
He would have 5 times up with different rifles and optics and see if he likes the low tech scopes I have or the Adjustable Objective scopes that I also have.  And talk with about 10 other CA hunters and see what they are using and why.  Some have an assortment of different scopes from varmint to tactical and everything inbetween. 
It is hard ot beat the rifle he picked.  A stainless steel bolt action in 30-06 is a great general purpose big game rifle.   And as you said a  scope can specialize the rifle or generalize it. I have seen some of my friends pick scopes that are way too big for the intended purpose of shooting deer and wanting to beable to shoot out to 1,000 yards.  And while the scope and the rifle may have been able to shoot that far and the farm I have access to  in college was able to give him a 1000 yard shot, the amount he spent on the scope stopped him from buying ammo to beable to practice. 
Yes if you are planning on hunting in the deep dark woods a low power scope like a 1-5 or a 1.25 -4  would be a great choice.  If open rolling hills are the area then a 4-12.  If a Texas tower then a 6-18 or 24.  If a combo are in order them a 3-9 would be most practical. 
And I have a number of Mission oriented rifles.  I found the 4-16 AO scope on my 338 to be a pain in the toosh when being a pusher on an elk hunt  and moving from woods to rolling hills and changing the front end of the scope from 30 yards to infanity.  I bought an other rifle with just a fixed power 4X on it and am able to make shots out to 250 yards easily with it.  At 250 yards the 4X should give you the feel that the animal is only 52 yards away with a 1X scope. 
 

[flmason]

Empty Quiver,
I offered to take FLmason shooting here in CA he does not live too far from a great club and let him see what he wants as far as action and optics.  he has not responded to my PM. 
One of the shoots I go to is a running deer shoot that is a 20 round shoot, and you shoot 4 rounds at a deer that is on a pully system. 
He would have 5 times up with different rifles and optics and see if he likes the low tech scopes I have or the Adjustable Objective scopes that I also have.  And talk with about 10 other CA hunters and see what they are using and why.  Some have an assortment of different scopes from varmint to tactical and everything inbetween. 
It is hard ot beat the rifle he picked.  A stainless steel bolt action in 30-06 is a great general purpose big game rifle.   And as you said a  scope can specialize the rifle or generalize it. I have seen some of my friends pick scopes that are way too big for the intended purpose of shooting deer and wanting to beable to shoot out to 1,000 yards.  And while the scope and the rifle may have been able to shoot that far and the farm I have access to  in college was able to give him a 1000 yard shot, the amount he spent on the scope stopped him from buying ammo to beable to practice. 
Yes if you are planning on hunting in the deep dark woods a low power scope like a 1-5 or a 1.25 -4  would be a great choice.  If open rolling hills are the area then a 4-12.  If a Texas tower then a 6-18 or 24.  If a combo are in order them a 3-9 would be most practical. 
And I have a number of Mission oriented rifles.  I found the 4-16 AO scope on my 338 to be a pain in the toosh when being a pusher on an elk hunt  and moving from woods to rolling hills and changing the front end of the scope from 30 yards to infanity.  I bought an other rifle with just a fixed power 4X on it and am able to make shots out to 250 yards easily with it.  At 250 yards the 4X should give you the feel that the animal is only 52 yards away with a 1X scope. 
 

Hey Mcwoodduck. It's not me. It's something about this browser. When I click on the PM's it just takes to some random thread. So don't take personal. With all the glitches I've seen on this website lately, I wasn't sure what to believe.

It's going to be a while before I get out and do any serious shooting. Job has me on call 7x24 for foreseeable future. I literally plan grocery runs inbetween scheduled changes.

So in reality, I have no idea when I'm going to be able to test anything. Kinda just treading water until I decide what to do about a better living space and can get and set up some reloading equipment.  Looking forward to the day when I can experiment with handloads again, at some point. Ideally without a lot of a rig-a-marole.

Bein' stuck in suburbia makes that kinda hard. All there is around here are indoor ranges aimed the handgunners I guess. Never been in one.

To be honest, I really plan any hunting trips in the near future. I'm just getting a few things while I can. Despite being up to my ears in scheduled work at the minute the offshoring thing is always staring at me. So I'm just trying to do my educated shopping while I can.

Not the best of situations to plan anything in the near term.

So please don't feel slighted.

As it is it's been since the 90's I pulled the trigger on anything. Went broke back then. Let go of some 25-ish guns as I got poorer, LOL!

Just now thinking about re-acquiring.

So no big rush, other than this requirement to register all guns, including long guns, they are doing in 2014. Thought I'd acquire a few things prior. haven't study the registation thing, so can't say I have an informed opinion on it. But between that, and the seemingly constant push to ban guns (and large soft drinks, LOL!) I decided to get a few basic firearms to cover the usual bases.

Basically was thinking this way:

1) Small Game
2) Medium to Large Game
3) Shotgun/flying game
4) Defensive Sidearm
5) Defensive Long Arm.

This "frenzy" thing has made tracking down some of my first choices a little harder. But that's the basic thinking that's going on. But not really aiming for an imminent hunt.

Have a friend I used to work with in CO. May run over there during Elk season at some point. But in all reality I'm not the "great white hunter" type. My personal interests actually run more toward the military stuff from about 1860 to... umm... whenever the M14 was. For example. lots of guys like Hawkens... I prefer the Enfields and Springfields of the era.

But, you can't really get military designs, new in box... which is my preference, cause... not sure how I feel about having guns that might have killed women and children sitting around. Which could be the case for any of the imported "bad guys guns". At this age, I'm more cognizant of that then when I was a kid. In my 20's or 30's... I'd have been like... "Really... a real Nazi 98? With waffenampts and all? Gotta have that!" Don't quite feel that way anymore.

For example, take the M48... thought those were clean of that sort thing... post war production... never saw real service... until I researched a little deeper and found out about the Serbian genocide thing. So shoot. how do you get a 98 Mauser in military configuration that didn't go somewhere disgusting, like africa, or do something awful like kill people in a concentration camp? Ya know? Even our Springfields might have done some of that.

So anyway, that's my story.

So ultimately hunting is a definite concern in my selections, but it's not really my "main thing" unless I really need to eat, except in the hypothetical. Having had times in my life where it looked like I might have to live in my car... the idea I might want to shoot something for food, was very real, as was the concept of self defense. And if it came/comes down to it... I'd rather go it in the woods than say Downtown Skid Row, LA. right?

Anyway. didn't want you to feel like I was ignoring a nice offer to help me out.

[flmason]

How far are you intending to shoot? what are you shooting at?


An honest answer to those two questions, might be your best guide. With little experience using optic sights you might surprise yourself with what is possible with a very simple setup.


Your rifle is likely to dictate what ammo you will use whether you like it or not. If a three hundred yard shot is out of the question, there is likely no need for the BDC type reticles. The 06 is not really a slow round after all, and unless competition is the game, a deer within 250 yds will be in mortal danger without any turret manipulation or Kentucky windage I dare say.

Honest answer, I have not idea. Whatever the future brings.

Just trying to make the best overall choice, most flexible.

Being a handloader, and thus able to load any level I want and have components for. I could see where I might be using cast at times and/or commercial jacketed if I had them on hand. So the thinking I'm always under is... "How do I make do both, consistently?"

I'll be the first to admit, flexibility often means purposes that are diametrically opposed to each other.

But hey, look a Mosin Sniper... you can use the scope or the irons at all times.

Strikes me as well... questionable that commercials rifles don't have the same feature.

Even the Ruger GSR misses that.

And it's so simple.. a side mounted scope mount the curls over the action.

I mean, really... that should be how they all are, I would think. But of course, just my uninformed opinion.

But *that* what I really want... in new rifle, stainless rifle... in 30-06... CRF...  with a drop box magazine, and full military stock. ideally with the 100% parts interchangability of a Savage and it's barrel nut.

Not one of those on the market that I've found.

[Empty Quiver]

I spent too much time trying to make one scope work on a couple of different rifles. Don't get me wrong it did work, sorta. In the end the problem was the record keeping thing.


I used QD mounts and bases, and have full faith in them. What I had little faith in was my ability to make the correct number of turns in the right direction for the next rifle. I wound up saving little range time or costly ammo.


I do think modern bullet construction allows for much better performance than most are willing to admit. So many of the heavy wide bullets were developed to address the cup and core construction techniques. Find a high quality 150gr bullet for example and be done. Practice with 5 loads and 5 bullets to find the perfect load will get danged expensive in its own right. I have come to believe the gun veterans advice that the gun is the cheap part its ammo that breaks you.


I simply offer the above as something to consider. There isn't a thing wrong with having a quest.


I have spent plenty of time and money proving my points over the years. I thrive on being contrary( don't like 350 chevy's, don't like 30-06's, don't like Remingtons, was an early adopter of Beta VCR, was pretty sure home PC's were a fad, you get the idea ) but I have owned some fast Fords, found Tikka's to be outstanding values, oddball chamberings are pretty easy to score on these days, ( 325WSM brass how many you want? ) I knew VHS was a flash in the pan , and what are these rumblings about the home PC ?

[flmason]

I spent too much time trying to make one scope work on a couple of different rifles. Don't get me wrong it did work, sorta. In the end the problem was the record keeping thing.


I used QD mounts and bases, and have full faith in them. What I had little faith in was my ability to make the correct number of turns in the right direction for the next rifle. I wound up saving little range time or costly ammo.


I do think modern bullet construction allows for much better performance than most are willing to admit. So many of the heavy wide bullets were developed to address the cup and core construction techniques. Find a high quality 150gr bullet for example and be done. Practice with 5 loads and 5 bullets to find the perfect load will get danged expensive in its own right. I have come to believe the gun veterans advice that the gun is the cheap part its ammo that breaks you.


I simply offer the above as something to consider. There isn't a thing wrong with having a quest.


I have spent plenty of time and money proving my points over the years. I thrive on being contrary( don't like 350 chevy's, don't like 30-06's, don't like Remingtons, was an early adopter of Beta VCR, was pretty sure home PC's were a fad, you get the idea ) but I have owned some fast Fords, found Tikka's to be outstanding values, oddball chamberings are pretty easy to score on these days, ( 325WSM brass how many you want? ) I knew VHS was a flash in the pan , and what are these rumblings about the home PC ?

LOL!, I hear that.

Here's the thing. At the moment my life is in a holding pattern. Way below my peak career earnings... not living where I can easily work with anything firearms related.

But we have this stupid "frenzy" thing going on, Registration of all Arms in Ca. in 2014 coming up, etc. So thought I'd get a few things I wanted and try to learn about the things I don't know. It may be years before I actually get to test any of this out. But while I can, trying to grab a few things and learn.

As to bullet selection. Coming from a large bore handgun background, my preference is to roll my own. But .30 cal rifles depend on velocity to get the job done... jacketed bullets aren't generally a "make your own" proposition. Granted... you can... but not easy nor cheap. That fact pushed me toward a 45-70 at one point.

So that leaves GC and Paper Patch. I'm thinking most paper these days has clay in it. Don't like that idea. GC involved addition equipment. Don't like idea either. But there ya have it. If you are going to shoot cast a lot of the time, but pull out the commercial jacketed for the rare hunting trip... being able to re-zero seems a good thing.

On the old milsurps with tangent sights... you set for the full house load... and then just know what yardage to set the sight for, when going with cast. For example... maybe you have set up the sight post on your Mosin to zero at 150 with you 182 gr. Sierra's or whatever.... and then you set the sight to 600 yrds for your 180 Gr, Lee Mold cast bullets pushed with some 2400... and maybe 300 yards for the same pushed with something like 4895 @ 2200 fps. or something (Numbers just off top of my head for illustration).

Anyway, point being you just slide the sight around for the different amounts of drop. Sure.. keep note naturally, but I was hoping some scope allowed for the same thing.

If not, OK... wouldn't be the first time I wanted something "they don't make".

I'm thinking, what I'll want in my powder cabinet is, Unique, 2400, 4895 and Red, Green, or Blue Dot fo the shotshells... haven't researched shotshell loadings much there yet. 

[Empty Quiver]

Two words for you.


Hippy bounty.

[mcwoodduck]

1) Small Game        Ruger  10/22 (hard to beat and it is Legos for adults buy parts and presto chango small game to tactical) A Browing Buck Mark pistol.
2) Medium to Large Game Ruger M77 Stainless you just bought
3) Shotgun/flying game 12 ga (hard to beat a rem870, 1100, 11-87 or Mossberg 500 with a long and short barrel)
4) Defensive Sidearm My favorite is a SIg but I think today it is hard ot really pick one as the best. 
5) Defensive Long Arm. the Short barrel 870 or a Garand (as you already have 30-06 ammo and can use it in either rifle)  Also hard ot beat a AR or AK.  Depending on what you like. 
The club I was telling you about also runs a different shoots Like a 22 Tactical Fast and fun and no crying about a failed primer Combo of rifle and pistol . 
The pistol tactical shoot   also is run with Shotguns and rifles on different events.  Based on 8 rounds so Garand shootiers can play too. 
The 870, 1100, or 11-87 and 500 a short tactical barrel can be purchased and the mag plug needed for hunting most game can be removed the barrels swaped and presto chango dove, skeet, duck gun goes to home defense or coyote killer. 
But these are my opinions and you know what they say about opinions. 

[flmason]

Two words for you.


Hippy bounty.

Hippy Bounty?

I'm LOL! But, I'm not sure what that really means!

So fill me in.

[flmason]

1) Small Game        Ruger  10/22 (hard to beat and it is Legos for adults buy parts and presto chango small game to tactical) A Browing Buck Mark pistol.
2) Medium to Large Game Ruger M77 Stainless you just bought
3) Shotgun/flying game 12 ga (hard to beat a rem870, 1100, 11-87 or Mossberg 500 with a long and short barrel)
4) Defensive Sidearm My favorite is a SIg but I think today it is hard ot really pick one as the best. 
5) Defensive Long Arm. the Short barrel 870 or a Garand (as you already have 30-06 ammo and can use it in either rifle)  Also hard ot beat a AR or AK.  Depending on what you like. 
The club I was telling you about also runs a different shoots Like a 22 Tactical Fast and fun and no crying about a failed primer Combo of rifle and pistol . 
The pistol tactical shoot   also is run with Shotguns and rifles on different events.  Based on 8 rounds so Garand shootiers can play too. 
The 870, 1100, or 11-87 and 500 a short tactical barrel can be purchased and the mag plug needed for hunting most game can be removed the barrels swaped and presto chango dove, skeet, duck gun goes to home defense or coyote killer. 
But these are my opinions and you know what they say about opinions.

Last time I really thought I might have to live out of the car, I went this way...

1) Small game - Ruger Single-10 .22
2) Medium and Large Game - Mosin and .44 SBH
3) Shotgun - H&R 20 guage pardner break action, Wanted the 12... none on the shelf... should've gone with the Pardner Pump 12 ga.
4) Defensive Side Arm - Ruger SBH .44 Mag (Some crossover there... could do medium and large game under 100 yards.) Was a vanity purchase I guess, should've gone for the SRH instead for DA capability.
5) Defensive Long Arm - Mosin - Was Cheap and in good shape.  Obviously not idea, being so long. An SKS, Yugo Mauser or some other shorter rifle would probably have been better. Looked at a Stevens 200 as well.

I was leaning towards handguns for concealability if I had to go it on foot.  At one point considered Handgun + Rossi Trifecta... since the Trifecta covered .243, 20 guage and .22. And folded up nicely... could've camaflouged it, if I had to go it on food with a back pack.

You know, you consider a lot of things when things get that thin. 

Last minute some work came through. Other wise it would have been the handgun + Trifecta, for better or worse.

If I had to do it over, still not sure what I'd go with, if I could pick anything. Maybe .22 handgun, .454 casull SRH, and a shotgun.   The .454 can go two ways with .45 LC or .454.

Alternatively. .22 handgun, .357 handgun, some shotgun. ...6's and Slugs can cover some ground.  The rifle, probably not neccesary.

I'd envisioned hitting the woods. So bear and people protection was on my mind most of all.

Figured I'd end up starving or freezing before it was over, really. Or end up in jail for living on public wilderness and such.

One thing is for sure. It wouldn't have been too terribly fun once food got thin and the weather got cold.