Too much annealing

[Land_Owner]

I deprimed, neck sized, 10% lemon juiced, and water washed 100 x .223 cases before placing them over the open flame of the propane gas burner of the BBQ grill to DRY THEM.  I left them far too long.  The "frictionless" slick brass became a puce orange-purple color (a sign of too much heat) with "sandpaper-like" sides.  Oh well.  I primed these, powdered their behinds, and loaded 60 grain Nosler Partitions. 

The standard tapered barrel Handi-rifle completely blew out 50% of the 50-cased primers on 12%-less-than-maximum loads of IMR 4227 in 0.10-grain increments.  The Bull Barrel Handi-rifle didn't blow a single primer for the same loads. 

Puzzlements:
Maybe there is something wrong with the standard barrel to breech face interlock...
Maybe the over-annealted primer pockets are too soft...
Maybe the powder is wrong...
Other opinion?

Does anyone have a starting load for .223 in IMR 4227?  I have a 9/98 edition of the IMR loading Pamphlet with a 17.0 grain max. limit.  No other earlier or later edition of any powder or bullet Mfg. offers an IMR 4227 powder loading for .223 Remington....strange...not even the latest Books and Pubs. of IMR...

I live-fire tested.  The powder worked, with one barrel anomalies.  My thinking is the over-annealed brass is too soft and I will be tossing those cases in favor of non-annealed brass for another round of standard barrel tests.  My results for the Bull Barrel were EXCELLENT.

[PowPow]

Were you trying to anneal them or just trying to dry them?
I dry mine on a cookie sheet in the oven, after slinging as much water as I can out of them by hand.
250 degrees changed the color, 175 degrees did fine.

[Land_Owner]

Just trying to dry them, but when they started to turn, I went the distance, and let them all turn color and perhaps composition too.  Propane flame is over 1,980 degrees F, but the brass never got "red" hot, only changed color to puce-orange/purple.

[OldSchoolRanger]

Land_Owner - IMR 4227 is a fast burning powder, probably too fast for the 223, maybe that's the reason, for a lack of loads using that powder.  I looked for my older IMR pamphlets, but I must have misplaced them, as I couldn't find any of them.  However, I did find a couple of my older reloading manuals; Speer #10(1979 - 1984), Hornady #3(1980 - 1985), Lyman #46(1982 - 1991), and Nosler #3(1989 - 1994).  There are no loads for the 223 using IMR4227, in those manuals.

Your comment piqued my curiosity, so I started to browse the web, and found this post:

http://www.stevespages.com/page8a.htm  Steves pages lists  old DuPont reloading data using IMR 4227 in both calibers. DuPont 1999 reloaders guide-223 rem -2810fps-51200 cup -Rem 7 1/2 primer-55gr Hornady spire PT Sx bullets-2.260" col  -IMR4227-17.0grMaximum.  The 270 win.-Rem 150gr spcl bullet -IMR 4227-29.0grMaximum. 2215 fps-51000 cup-Rem 9 1/2 primer-3.250 col.  Not a good choice of powder. Use data at your own risk.   Edit: > Different Component=Different Pressure.

on AR15.com at http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/369436_.html.

Most of the other comments all supported my guess about IMR 4227 being too fast a burning powder for the 223.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345112

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-678415.html

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1732  ( In this thread a guy has a load using a 45 grain bullet and IMR 4227.)

and finally from GBO:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=168280.0

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=145105.5;wap2

Best of luck with your load development, but I don't think I would use IMR4227 for 223.




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[Larry L]

Yer a lucky guy L/O. Lucky yer still here with all of yer hands and arms. You need to go back and look at that data of 17.0grs of IMR4227. That max load is for a 55gr bullet, not a 60gr partition bullet. Pressures would have been at or above 60,000PSI and you did that with bad brass. Yer living a charmed life. Once the brass is heated past a slight blue color, that's all you heat it. That puts the temp real close to 660F. Any annealing of the body or head and you should be throwing the brass away. That's my recommendation now- throw it all away. I don't see where 100 rounds of brass is worth any body parts.
As you probably know, you can't just take a bullet of the same weight and load to a max PSI. Bullet profiles are different and the bearing surface is everything in the difference between a safe load and one on the verge of a kaboom. Those partitions are long and lots of bearing surface over the Hornady 55gr bullet used in the DuPont data. As you probably already know, IMR4227 is not a good powder for the 223 for any reason which is why you aren't find any data. Pressure spikes are common with this powder and you have certainly pushed the envelope with it. With poor loading density and inconsistent ignition, yer about the luckiest guy I chat with. But if I had to guess as to why one gun had no apparent issues- more than likely powder positioning. I would say something in how you loaded the round in the chamber and probably picked the barrel up to move the powder back against the primer is the difference.

[theratdog]

i had a similar problem with my ar i use 4895 but never heat my brass i reduced load one grain no more problem.did your primer's go in with some resistance?

[Land_Owner]

As you probably know, you can't just take a bullet of the same weight and load to a max PSI.

Going back and rereading my OP, I see I overstated that I fired ALL of the 50 standard barrel reloads and it can be calculated that 25 primers blew out.  That is not what I did.

After 6 primer blowouts at 12% below maximum (in charge weight of 15.0, 15.1, 15.3, and 15.4 grains ONLY), I QUIT that string of 3-shot tests in the Standard barrel and fired, watching for signs of increasing pressure, all 48 rounds, in 3-shot groups in the Bull Barrel (15.0 through 16.5 grains in 0.10 grain increments) staying below the maximum load of 17.0 grains (as the 60 grain Nosler Partition is not the aforementioned 55 grain Hornady bullet).  I could have/should have stopped at 15.2 grains in the Bull Barrel because the 3 shots were practically on top of one another at 100 yards tempting me to use IMR 4227 in that rifle to that weight charge - but I WON'T.

Thanks to all for your concern and reasoned opinions.  I cherish ALL of my extremities and hear you LOUD and CLEAR.  In the trash these cases go.  Back to the books to find a suitable powder alternative.

[anweis]

You need to toss that brass into the recycling bin and start again with fresh brass. You overheated and over-annelaed the entire case, a big no-no.
It is unsafe, it will stretch and rupture soon. Even if that does not happen, the necks no longer have sufficient tension to hold the bullets properly. The necks being too soft, you may have bullets slip inside the case. When fired, that will cause excessive pressure. Excessive pressure combined with softened brass...
Even if an accident does not happen, i doubt that those cases will shoot accurately.
Be safe.