Author Topic: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.  (Read 676 times)

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Offline powderman

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Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« on: May 03, 2013, 03:05:45 PM »
Holder Threatens Kansas Over New Gun Law    Debra Heine
2 May 2013,


Kansas Governor Sam Brownback received a letter today from Attorney General Eric Holder threatening action against the state should it enforce SB102, the pro 2nd Amendment law Brownback signed into law last month.

The new law declares that the federal government has no power to regulate guns manufactured, sold and kept only in Kansas.
 
Any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the government of the United States which violates the second amendment to the constitution of the United States is null, void and unenforceable in the state of Kansas.
The legislation made it a felony for a federal agent to enforce any law, regulation, order or treaty regulating ammunition made, sold and kept in the state because the federal government does not “interstate commerce” authority over such items.

The law became effective only a week ago, but already Holder has leapt into action, firing off a letter to the governor of Kansas threatening to take "all appropriate action including litigation if necessary" to prevent the state of Kansas from protecting the 2nd Amendment. (Amazing for a guy who didn't even know about his own department's gun-running operation, Fast and Furious until months after a border patrol agent was killed by one of its guns.) But when a state passes a law he doesn't like - this Attorney General is FAST!
 
“In purporting to override federal law and to criminalize the official acts of federal officers, SB102 directly conflicts with federal law and is therefore unconstitutional.”

“Under the Supremacy Clause…Kansas may not prevent federal employees and officials from carrying out their official responsibilities. And a state certainly may not criminalize the exercise of federal responsibilities. Because SB102 conflicts with federal firearms laws and regulations, federal law supercedes this new statute; all provisions of federal laws and their implementing regulations therefore continue to apply.”

Michael Boldin, founder of the Tenth Amendment Center, pointed out the flaws in Holder's reasoning at Right Side News:
 
1. Kansas is NOT purporting to criminalize the exercise of constitutional federal responsibilities. On the contrary, the bill criminalizes what the state has determined is unconstitutional. It is the position that such federal acts are indeed a violation of the Constitution. No matter how much Eric might believe it to be otherwise, his view is obviously not universal – especially in Kansas.

2. The Supremacy Clause. Holder takes the position that all tyrants do – that everything they do is authorized, anything to the contrary – worthless. But Holder is wrong. The Supremacy Clause doesn’t say that “any law in conflict with federal law” is void. It says that only those laws “in pursuance” of the constitution are supreme. The new Kansas legislation, again, takes the position that such federal acts are not constitutional, and therefore not supreme.
3. Historical Precedent. The 1850 Fugitive Slave Act was a federal law that basically required all states in the north to act as slave catchers for black people claimed as property in the South. It’s one of the most disgusting acts in American history. A number of northern states passed laws similar to the new Kansas law, criminalizing federal agents for attempting to kidnap people in their states. Although the feds still claimed the same kind of authority that Eric Holder has claimed today, they didn’t have the manpower to enforce.
Read more about that here. As an aside, if Holder would like to take the position that such resistance to federal slave laws was wrong, he’s welcome to publicly state that.

There is also a precedent to fighting federal gun control laws and winning.

After the Brady bill was signed into law in the nineties, Arizona Sheriff Richard Mack sued the Clinton administration claiming the federal government had overstepped its bounds. The case found its way to the U.S. Supreme Court, and Sheriff Mack won.

"There's still hope and local sovereignty, state sovereignty, state's rights is the solution. We've got to have local officials that tell the federal government there's just a few things you're not going to do here," Mack said at a gun rights event at an American Legion in Lima, Ohio, last February.

"If we have local officials, sheriffs and state representatives and governors nullifying what the federal government is doing it's all proper, it's all constitutional, and it is completely in line with state sovereignty and the 10th Amendment."

"The 10th Amendment guarantees this process that we're about today. Acting on the powers of the states we can keep this movement peaceful and effective and put the federal government back where they belong," Mack concluded.



http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2...er-New-Gun-Law 
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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Offline Lizzie-6

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2013, 09:53:48 PM »
Holder Threatens Kansas Over New Gun Law    Debra Heine
2 May 2013,

(and so forth)


A very creative stunt.

Let's see how it holds up to Holder's legal challenge and Obama's arm twisting.  My bet is that when everything is said and done, Tennessee Kansas [L-6] backs away from this.
Lizzie-Six

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2013, 10:15:22 PM »


Quote
A vary creative stunt.

Let's see how it holds up to Holder's legal challenge and Obama's arm twisting.  My bet is that when everything is said and done, Tennessee backs away from this.

Could be, especially since this is about KANSAS......not Tennessee. ;D
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Offline Lizzie-6

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2013, 10:31:18 PM »


Quote
A vary creative stunt.

Let's see how it holds up to Holder's legal challenge and Obama's arm twisting.  My bet is that when everything is said and done, Tennessee backs away from this.

Could be, especially since this is about KANSAS......not Tennessee. ;D

Just testing you, Sport.

You passed.

Thanks. ;)
Lizzie-Six

Offline lakota

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2013, 05:33:16 AM »
Obama's chief henchman has spoken. Kansas better get thier asses in line and march in lockstep with Der Fuhrer.
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline -Shaggy-

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2013, 06:05:05 AM »
Obama's chief henchman has spoken. Kansas better get thier asses in line and march in lockstep with Der Fuhrer.

But we don't want to get in that line. We have formed a new line.
 
 
"The total number of states that have introduced pro-Second Amendment nullification bills in their state legislatures currently stands at 32. These states include Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Kansas, Kentucky, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wyoming.
Of those 32 states, bills have passed both chambers in Montana, and only one chamber in Alaska, Kentucky, Idaho, North Dakota, Utah, Wyoming, "
 
Looks like 31 other states need to get off their asses and pass their bills supporting the 2nd Amendment like we here in Kansas just did. Or just leave us out here in a line of one, opposing the mighty Eric Holder all by ourselves.

Offline powderman

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2013, 07:01:30 AM »
SHAGGY. Good post Sir. I'm proud to see Kentucky standing up for the 2nd. Our co sheriff made a pro 2nd stand as well as EVERY sheriff in the state. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline -Shaggy-

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2013, 08:17:59 AM »
SHAGGY. Good post Sir. I'm proud to see Kentucky standing up for the 2nd. Our co sheriff made a pro 2nd stand as well as EVERY sheriff in the state. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D

Well, don't take this the wrong way, but I don't see much to be proud of yet. Until your legislature passes their bill, and your governor signs it into law, all of their support of the 2nd Amendment is just talk. Let them know you want to see some action, so your state can get their threatening letter from Gun Runner Holder, and your governor can write back and tell him to stuff it.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2013, 09:17:50 AM »
This is just posturing for the sake of those who don't know any better.  Not a single thing will change here, or anywhere else.  The next time a Federal agent is arrested will be the first, and that should come as no surprise.  This is actually setting two "conservative" ideals at odds with each other.  1) A support for the second amendment vs 2) An unconditional support for all things wearing badges.  The badges thing always wins, and it WILL win again this time.
 
In total, I'm OK with it.  My tax dollars will go to defend this law, and those dollars will mostly be wasted, but I like to see pushback, even if it's symbolic.  But if you think this is some watershed piece of resistance you don't understand law, or politics, or both.

Offline Lizzie-6

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2013, 10:22:04 AM »
This is just posturing for the sake of those who don't know any better.  Not a single thing will change here, or anywhere else.  The next time a Federal agent is arrested will be the first, and that should come as no surprise.  This is actually setting two "conservative" ideals at odds with each other.  1) A support for the second amendment vs 2) An unconditional support for all things wearing badges.  The badges thing always wins, and it WILL win again this time.
 
In total, I'm OK with it.  My tax dollars will go to defend this law, and those dollars will mostly be wasted, but I like to see pushback, even if it's symbolic.  But if you think this is some watershed piece of resistance you don't understand law, or politics, or both.

Those OK with that may also be OK with symbolic gun shops that market a wide range of symbolic firearms, symbolic ammunition, symbolic accessories and a full line of symbolic apparel.  In fact, the NRA already markets this sort of apparel. 

Concerned symbolic citizens could also join symbolic interest groups claiming to protect their symbolic right to keep and bear symbolic arms.  Symbolic resources could then be used to support Governor Brownback and other symbolic politicians of like mind in their effort to promote symbolic symbolism.

Or simply just declare the whole thing a STUNT, and cut our losses before we really lose anything.   Or not, and just stay the course.

Questions?

Lizzie-Six

Offline powderman

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2013, 11:18:29 AM »
SHAGGY. I've let my views known on the 2nd to all who represent me. Even the dem rep seems upset over obummers antics. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline -Shaggy-

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Re: Holder threatens Kansas over new gun law.
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2013, 11:44:28 AM »

 
In total, I'm OK with it.  My tax dollars will go to defend this law, and those dollars will mostly be wasted, but I like to see pushback, even if it's symbolic.  But if you think this is some watershed piece of resistance you don't understand law, or politics, or both.

No, this is not the end of the fight to protect the 2nd Amendment here in Kansas, but it is a start. Apparently. it at least got Holder's attention, and that is something. It is something for Kansas and the rest of the states to build on. This country didn't get in the sorry shape it is in overnight, and it won't get corrected all at once. If you think that major changes can't come from smaller beginnings, then you don't understand the nature of change, or resistance, or both.