Im looking at a red dot for one of my Handis.

[xhare]

I have been reading up on red dots but I have never owned one.  So far I like the Burris Fastfire III due to its small size.  The dot is the supposed to be 3 MOA.  But the sight can be mounted on a rifle or pistol.  Is it 3 MOA when sighted on a rifle (close to your eye) or 3 MOA with mounted on a pistol (arms length from your eye). 

Thanks for the help.

[336SC]

xhare, I don't know about the Burris Fastfire red dot but I do own several other brands.  It does not matter how close or far away your eye is when it comes to red dot sites, at least the ones I own.  It also does not matter if the red dot is centered in the lense system because the bullet will go where the red dot is when you look through the red dot site.  Eye relief is a non issue as well.  That's why red dot sites are so quick when shooting them.  Where ever that red dot is once the system is sighted in (sights in just like a regular scope), that's where your bullet will go. My favorite red dot site is the Four Dot Ultra Dot.  The red dot is very clear and precise.  I have that one mounted on my Ruger MKII 5.5" bull barreled target pistol, but it would be right at home on any of my short range rifles as well.  I'm not expert here at all, just giving you advice from my limited experience.
336SC

[petemi]

The dot's the same if it is an inch from your nose or at the end of the barrel.  I like red dots a lot for short yardage, low light shots.  I have four of them sitting on a shelf doing nothing.  You use them with both eyes open.  My left eye is stronger than my right and takes over so I don't see squat through the sight.  If I close my left eye, the red-dot's lack of magnification doesn't aid my vision the way a scope does.....so it was back to scopes.  If you want to eliminate the dot covering three inches of your target at 100 yards, sight in with your bullet hitting at 12 o'clock on the dot.  That way you can see where you're putting it.  What it boils down to for me is that I need to do this summer what Richard did when he lost his shooting eye.  I need, very seriously, to learn to shoot left handed.  I dinked around with it a bit last Fall, but I'm a long way from being a reflexive left hand shooter.

Pete

[BBF]

Don't go cheap, also look at halo sights.

[petemi]

BBF, I'm ignorant when it come to Halos.  Could you explain the advantage.  I always judged they were flimsy and could be knocked apart easily and never tried any of them.  What works best on a Handi?

Pete

[gcrank1]

I had an inexpensive 'red-dot' some years back that let me dial in the intensity, which seemed to give a varying size dot effect. The optics were clear enough and it held adjustment on the 22LR's I tried it on and it actually gave me better groups at 50yd's than I thought I would get. I did use the 'sit the target on top of the dot' method as I never liked covering my target. Downside was that it had to be turned on/off and I wasnt so good on the off part after years of unpowered optics. I gave it a couple of goes on different guns and over several years, but did not warm up to it and sold it cheap at a gun show. I havent missed it yet.

[petemi]

gcrank1, if it makes you feel better, I was never good at the "off" part of it either.  I always had dead batteries because I left it on.  I think what it all boils down to is that this newfangled stuff is for the kids.  I'm gonna go sit a spell on the front porch.  Gotta make sure the Robins and Kingbirds are doing their jobs.  It's not easy being a supervisor.

Pete

[gcrank1]

Pete, I know Im in good company here with a lot of 'my' preferences........and I know Im a creature of habit (or my own bad habits).
Harry had it right when he said," A man's got to know his limitations" 

[PowPow]

...The dot is the supposed to be 3 MOA.  But the sight can be mounted on a rifle or pistol.  Is it 3 MOA when sighted on a rifle (close to your eye) or 3 MOA with mounted on a pistol (arms length from your eye)...

I have an FFII (4MOA dot) that was on a pistol, now on a shotun. Your question is reasonable and got me curious, so I just tested it in the garage. Set the gun in a vise and fixed the dot on a spot about 6 feet away that matched the of size of the dot.
As I moved my eye away from the sight, it covered more of the target, i.e. the MOA of the dot grew as eye relief grew although at not at a rate enough to make a difference between pistol and rifle length. I was probably 8 ft away from it before I could definitely say it was bigger. I did notice that as the eye relief increased, so did parallax, which makes me think it would be better on a rifle or shotgun.
Could not test a longer target range as my garage is not 100 yards long.

I now disagree with their claim "it offers unlimited eye relief, parallax-free 1x magnification", but I still like it.
3MOA behind a deer's shoulder at 100 yards should be a dead deer.

When I had a cheap 3MOA red dot on my handi, I made targets that consisted of a 3"square with a very bold border. I would hold the dot centered in the square, shoot and adijust until the bullet was hitting in the very center of the 3" square.


Be aware that FF's have a low light cutoff. If you leave it on, but put the cover on it, the darkness of the cover, or the darkness in the gun case will turn it off. So will sunset. There is a lot of "shooting light" left when my FF turns off due to low light. A red dot with manual off and rheostat might be better for evening hunts.
Hope this helps.

[ousooners1baby]

I have killed so many deer with a $30 red dot it ain't funny.  I laughed at it when I put it on but my muzzloader will never have anything else. 

[Ranger99]

i guess the usher will have to put
me in the jr. codger section.
after last year, i don't believe i want
another one. turning the sight on low
getting to the blind first thing in the am.
look through a few times as it gets lighter
and turn up the intensity, forget and leave
it on. . . .
oh well, i had a spare battery j.i.c.
i'll have to stick with something that doesn't
need batteries or constant fiddling during the hunt.
it goes against my lifetime of learning not to fiddle
with the scope after sight-in.
just me- they obviously work, or there wouldn't
be so many sold.

[Ranger99]

you kids know what an usher is, right?

[PowPow]

If only they made something that didn't take batteries; like if you put maybe a post at the end of the barrel and some kind of adjustable thing with a notch back at the rear of the barrel to line it up straight....naw, that doesn't make sense.

[Ranger99]

or maybe even a little metal
doo-dad with a hole you could
peep through to sight the shot?

[JimP.]

Bushnell makes a dot scope with either a red dot or green dot.  Has  4 recticles; small dot, large dot, circle with dot and crosshair. I mounted one on my 45-70 Handi rifle and use the crosshair recticle. JimP.

[BBF]

Pete:
 I can't help you much either, I never had the $ to buy one.  I think your troops have them on their rifles in the ME as standard equipment. I don't think they need batteries.
 
My cheap Red Dot "Shifted" when I moved my head left or right when looking at it.

[quickdtoo]

I had a BSA red dot, first time I used it patterning my 835 in the rain it fogged up internally on me.  Needless to say it never went hunting. 

Tim

[xhare]

One more question.  Is a red dot, specifically a holographic one like the Fastfire, focus-able.   I now have to wear no line bifocals, they make seeing iron sights more clear, but I often end up trying to look over my glasses, which turns the sights to fuzz again.  Will I need to sight a Fastfire through my glasses or will I be able to focus it and avoid my glasses.


Thanks to everyone for the input.  I have no real experience with red dots. I really like the compact size the Burris, its not much larger than a regular rear sight and a bunch smaller than a compact scope. 

 

[gcrank1]

I cant answer the FF question but can relate my bifocal experience.
Ive had the 'progressive lenses' and now the 'lined', with which only the distance correction is the one to look through. The big issue for me is that when shouldering a long gun and placing my cheek to stock my eye is not looking through the optical center of the glasses where the correction is. This varies gun to gun too. Check it yourself by holding and aiming as you would in the field and perhaps having someone support the rifle so you can use a grease pencil to touch your glasses where you look through them to sight. My mark ends up well toward the inside frame in the upper 1/3 of the lens, well out of the correction zone. Competition shooters have had glasses made with the optical center in that spot they look through while sighting. The progressive lenses were worse in that the correction is in a relatively tall, but narrow band in the center of the lense. They do this because for 'normal use' we look straight ahead. The lined have a wider correction, yet still not completely side to side and the closer you get to the frame the more distortion you will get.
You may find that having a single vision pair with only the distance correction and the optical center moved well to the place you look through to be worth while. I think that this may be a good first step as it is your interface with the sighting system.
Disclaimer: I am not trained in the glasses stuff, just a shootin' guy who has suffered from diminishing eyesight for some years and have an analytical bent.

[OldSchoolRanger]

you kids know what an usher is, right?

He's the R&B/Hip-Hop singer, right? 

I remember when they actually had ushers in movie theaters.

If only they made something that didn't take batteries; like if you put maybe a post at the end of the barrel and some kind of adjustable thing with a notch back at the rear of the barrel to line it up straight....naw, that doesn't make sense.

Kimber imports a red dot sight made by Meprolight (an Israeli company), that's not too expensive, it doesn't use batteries, and is combat proven.  If you have the big bucks, you can buy the ACOG made by Trijicon, which is used by the US military, which also doesn't use batteries.

[Sourdough]

I have three.  One on my pellet rifle for shooting squirrels in the front yard.  One on a Contender .22RF for shooting those little sillouettes.  And the last one on a 30-06 Encore barrel, for close up work.

I forgot I bought a .22 S&W auto last month.  I put a Halo site on it.  The wife really likes it.  Thought of putting one on my AR-7, can't decide.

[BBF]

Wearing glasses is a pita, I've got bifocals and do not use them when shooting or got them so low on my nose I can look over them.. My eyes, at least the shooting eye is still good enough that I can use the scope focal adjustment to get a crisp picture and crosshair..

[shvlhead.45]

XHARE,

Red Dots, whether of tubular or holographic in design are not focusable as most are of 1X power and look through only in design (KISS).  The dot is adjustable for intensity and you should find that the lower the intensity (just bright enough to see) will give you the best sight picture. 

I too wear bifocals and find use of all sights degraded but with the red dot sights I simply adjust the intensity of the dot as low as I can and still see it when using it and then when engaging a target I focus on the target with both eyes open and let the dot superimpose over where I want the bullet to impact.

FYI, there are several manufactures that make magnifiers that mount behind the red dot, usually in 3X or 4X.

r/shvlhead.45