223 or 357 in a handi for deer?

[brokenxj22]

One more vote for the Mag.  Load up a bunch of 38s and start practicing.  I didn't notice a mention of where you will be hunting, some states like mine (VA) do not allow 223 for Deer.

[Couger]

no question. use the .357 mag.
i've never had a a problem with
my .357 not being enough.
use good bullets that will hold together,
not hollow point "self defense" rounds.
.223 will work if you head shoot and
can do it consistently. a body shot would be too iffy.
needless to say, the chosen round should
be a proven accurate load.
good luck

Telling someone who's never shot a deer to "head shoot" is pretty piss poor advice if you ask me.
A 223 with a 60gr. Nosler Partition will flatten deer all day long... WITH BODY SHOTS through the heart/lungs.  Yes indeed!

That Nosler 60 grain bullet is excellent on deer, but so is the 64 grain Winchester Power Point and Speer 70 grain Semi-Spitzer ..... All in .224 caliber.  All capable of easily killing deer.   

[quickdtoo]

63gr Sierra #1370 is another bullet that is a proven deer bullet, particularly in slower twists, 1:12" Handis  specifically. 

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/609136/sierra-varminter-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-63-grain-semi-pointed-box-of-100#ReviewHeader

[SHOOTALL]

is .223 legal ? In Va. it is not for deer . I mention it because it's your first hunt it sounds like.
Good luck.

[Ranger99]

never said it couldn't be done,
i wrote the .357 would be a better
choice seeing as how the o.p. is
already loading for it and would be able
to tailor a load for his firearm. i've shot 'em
with arrows that don't even have a sixteenth
of the speed of those calibers, but i've been hunting
all of my adult life and know how to bloodtrail
and find deer the don't drop right off.


kind of a dead horse to keep flogging isn't it?

[cjrjck]

There are plenty of folks out there that would tell you the neither is a dependable round for deer. Not me. But I do believe that bullet choice is critical in both. For the 357, I use hard cast bullets or heavy jacketed soft points. As for the 223, there are two schools of thought. I have seen a lot of guys in south Texas use the round. Mostly for does. They prefer the standard mid-weight soft points and wait for a broad side double lung shot. No bone and no big angle. The bullets rarely exit. Usually they fragment into the lungs. It works but you have to know the shot. I prefer the other school of thought. A tough bullet that will expand some but penetrate like a bigger caliber. Some like the heavy soft points. I prefer any of the Barnes TSX bullets the gun will stabilize. I have even taken deer with the 45 grain Barnes X. It may seem strange, but bone is not bad with the X bullets, even in 223. The off shoulder is the perfect target.

[rc51kid]

I have a box of these from Missouri Bullets. What would you think of using these loaded to full house 357 mag or 357 max over Win 296?

.357 Striker #358180
 .358 Diameter
 .357 Magnum
 180 Grain RNFP
 Brinell 18
 For Maximum Energy
 Price per box of 500

[quickdtoo]

Here's a discussion on em at MO.

Tim

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/1894/59131-180gr-rnf-357-striker.html

[revbc]

If you hunt in a place like the Tunica Hills in Louisiana, you will lose more deer than you recover with the 223.  Just to small of a hole.  Minimum IMO here is 7mm, too many lost with 243.  357 hopped up to maxi with a good bullet will leave good exit hole.  (Didn't say it wouldn't kill em (the 223), but recovery is different)

It is kinda like the jungle here.  Hills and hollows and thickets

[northkid]

I'm sayin the 45 70. Well that is all I have seen the last week, it really leaves a mark. 

[gr8ful]

no question. use the .357 mag.
i've never had a a problem with
my .357 not being enough.
use good bullets that will hold together,
not hollow point "self defense" rounds.
.223 will work if you head shoot and
can do it consistently. a body shot would be too iffy.
needless to say, the chosen round should
be a proven accurate load.
good luck

Telling someone who's never shot a deer to "head shoot" is pretty piss poor advice if you ask me.
A 223 with a 60gr. Nosler Partition will flatten deer all day long... WITH BODY SHOTS through the heart/lungs.



Spanky

+1 sound advice Spanky.  Go with the Nosler Partition.

[mcwoodduck]

If you hunt in a place like the Tunica Hills in Louisiana, you will lose more deer than you recover with the 223.  Just to small of a hole.  Minimum IMO here is 7mm, too many lost with 243.  357 hopped up to maxi with a good bullet will leave good exit hole.  (Didn't say it wouldn't kill em, but recovery is different)

It is kinda like the jungle here.  Hills and hollows and thickets

Some rounds have a reputation for Brush Busting.  I think they are more about a heavy for caliber, moderate to slow speed and round front bullet than anything else.  The smaller faster bullets still kill but having a small entry and exit hole make it hard to track a wounded deer even though they are running throug the woods and brush dead. 
The larger the hole the more blood will spill out and make following the deer easier.  The other advantage is the slower bullet with a wider front tend to mushroom and transfer energy into the animal.  Most often knocking the Animal down. 
I have seen this shooting different loads of both 308Win and 30-06.  The pointed soft points 15 to 30 grains lighter than the round nose 180's zing through the deer and still making a fatel hit but do not knock down the deer. 
And I think even the 7X57 with lighter bullets will have a similar effect to that of the 243. 
We all tend to pick the most advanced bullet that may work better in open plains or roilling hills where distance is the enemy and shorter bullet drop is a compromise to knock down.   And why the 30-30 is bad mouthed by many headed out to hunt in the West as too slow and a rainbow trajectory but the guys that hunt white tails know what works in the woods. 
My suggestion for him is to take a box or two of heavy for caliber 357 Mag loads and  see what they do at 25, 50 and 75 yards and limit your shots to about 75 yards for your first hunt.  If you still think you need to reem to 357 MAX then do so at after trying the 357 mag with at least 158 grain bullets.   

[gcrank1]

I read a very good test years back about 'brush -busting' where a setup of dowels was used to make a repeatable maze to simulate shooting through brush. None, even the traditionally well regarded as brush busting calibers faired very well. The deflection of rounds was such that I determined that unless I had a clear shot (and this can be in brush, but a hole visible with a decent scope; forget about open or peep sights) I would not take the shot. And if shooting through that 'hole' I would have to be looking for branches that kinda hide when we concentrate on the critter.
So, a conscientious hunter does not take the 'bad' opportunity; we arent starving nor are our children. The critter deserves the best we have, in equipment choices and decisions.

[mcwoodduck]

I read a very good test years back about 'brush -busting' where a setup of dowels was used to make a repeatable maze to simulate shooting through brush. None, even the traditionally well regarded as brush busting calibers faired very well. The deflection of rounds was such that I determined that unless I had a clear shot (and this can be in brush, but a hole visible with a decent scope; forget about open or peep sights) I would not take the shot. And if shooting through that 'hole' I would have to be looking for branches that kinda hide when we concentrate on the critter.
So, a conscientious hunter does not take the 'bad' opportunity; we arent starving nor are our children. The critter deserves the best we have, in equipment choices and decisions.

I saw that test too.  There were a few flaws with the Baffle box.  One being they used Dried Dowels and anchored them where a branch will be green and move a little due to the air wave infront of the bullet.  Also the location of the baffel in relation to the target will determin the angle of deflection. I think shooting through a ficus tree would have been a better test. While the stick or branch  may move it 5 degrees if the stick is right infront of the deer it the bullet will still be a hit, if the stick is 20 yards away that 5 degree deflection will move the bullet feet instead of an inch or less and the further away from the target the further the deflection.  And a yawing bullet going in side ways is almost in instant kill.  But agin why I like heavy for caliber bullets that are more likly to shoot strait through a twig right in front of the deer than a lighter one. If Physics will move the bullet physics will also determine the amount it is deflected. 3rd law of gravity (paraphrased) says that a bullet in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by another force and mass will have an effect to keep the bullet moving in that same line and a greater force will be needed to move it.   
But agian I think the brush busting has more to do with bullet design being effective on game and making it easier to find the dead deer than actually mowing through trees, twigs, and leaves. 
 But as you say it is best to take a clear shot.

[jackddavis]

While I have no objections to reaming to Maxi, I've learned that I can load to Maxi velocities in the Magnum brass in my Handi using 180 gr. Hornady XTP's or Hornady 200 gr. FTX's with IMR4227 powder (20 gr with the 180 gr. XTP and 18 gr. with the 200 gr. FTX). These loads are detailed on my website at http://www.metalsmithpro.com/357MagnumRifle.htm. Both loads are the listed maximum for the Remington Maximum on the Hodgden reloading website. You would have to check your rifle's chamber and work up loads in the normal safe manner as any prudent hand loader would do. Good hunting.
 

[colt1960]

Like most others have already said, go with the .357 mag. Get on the list for the max reamer. start looking for the max brass. You should find it before deer season comes around. If not load your .357 mag brass and use it. I hear others say that the 357 mag shoots as good or better after reaming because of the lead angle of the max reamer compared to stock. good luck. Rick!

[nanuk-O-dah-Nort]

while waiting for the reamer, here is something to consider

most 357Maggies have a long throat, allowing you to seat a bullet out to where it can fall out of the case if it is under 220gr or more...

if you can find data for a 360DW, or even a Maxi with the bullets you intend to use, seat them to no longer than the COAL, your capacity will be the same as in the other rounds.
EX/  you have a 180gr SSP load for the 357Max and the book COAL is 1.xxx, if you seat that bullet out to that same length you have the same capacity behind the bullet with Mag brass as with Max brass.

Mag brass is designed to handle pressures near the Max brass, so if you were to keep loads never more than 85-90% of Maxi Maximums, you will be safe.  Also note, the CIP maximum Piezo pressure difference is only 1K.    So, I'd stick to 85% and run with it.

REMEMBER, that is ONLY if you can seat the bullet OUT to the SAME COAL as the Max load data.  If the COAL is not listed or you are unsure, DO NOT USE that data...  find other data.

Play safe and keep it under max loads, and find one that shoots well, and you can have confidence to over 100yds....

some folks use their maxi's at 200yds

[Rob Conner]

I don't know about other states, but .223 is prohibited for hunting big game in Colorado.

[Doublebass73]

.223 is legal in New Hampshire.

[Lost Oki]

My son and I have taken deer with both .223 and 357 rifles.  I hunt Indiana with a 357 Marlin lever with excellent results.  Both deer taken with the 357 have field dressed at 150 or more.  Distance - out to 75 yrds.  +1 on the premium bullet, no hollow point.  I used 158 grain fp, Hornady on one and Remington on the other.  Pass thru on both, and would not hesitate to pull the trigger at 100 yrds on deer of this size.  If shots are going to be over that, I would lean toward the Max.